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tonyspears
04-12-2006, 12:14 PM
Just found this about Paul Dalton the Zymol guy who was on the tv.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a quick bit of background info re Paul and Zymol.

Basically, despite Paul having previously been an amazing ambassador for Zymol, a champion of their products and an authorised Zymol detailer, he is now officially parting company with them due to their introduction of expensive authorised detailer 'membership' fees.

Now is this just a cynical way to get more money from a detailer? Or can it be justified by Zymol through discounts, training, use of the logo etc? Whether it adds up is up to you, but I know a lot about Paul, Zymol, both their lawyers and the businesses involved and it is unsuprising to me that Paul has decided that Zymol can keep their logo...

Furthermore, I can tell you that as soon as you have an exclusive little scheme like this, lawyers rub their hands in glee, as the company will have to spend most of their time quelling use of the trademark etc by non-authorised parties. This protects the 'investment' of those 'in the club'.

So, will Zymol's google ranking go down a lot? Will they spend more time with their lawyers than making waxes? And what about Paul Dalton?

Well, the irony is, Zymol can't stop an unauthorised detailer using their waxes. All they can do is try to stop them using their trademark, in written or graphical form, if these apply. Paul has already paid for Royale for lifelong refills, so it is daft that Zymol say he can't tell anyone about it, but that's the way they are playing it.

As for a range of Paul Dalton detailing products, let's just say that interesting things are happening. About 6 months before all this kicked off, a leading wax chemist was independently commissioned to create a wax from scratch and the prototype showed comparable beading, shine and durability to an extremely expensive (and nameless) competitive wax for 1/200th of the retail price.

Needless to say, now that Paul can't advertise Zymol waxes he is extremely interested in this alternative - and thinks some of you might be as well.

Remember, Zymol is a good product, but no king rules forever.

Regards
MA

400SPYDER
04-12-2006, 12:30 PM
http://www.miracledetail.co.uk/auto-detailing-treatments.html

Flatcap
04-12-2006, 05:52 PM
for 1/200th of the retail price

I've been telling people this for a long time but have continuingly been lambasted for doing so. Zymol is a very very good product I'd never argue that but you can get very good results from alternative products.

80% of the final finish is down to preparation - I'm sure Dave (Zymol) and Tony (spearsy) will agree.

I feel Zymol have taken their eye off the ball slightly in recent times and the accountants and lawyers seem to be running things too much. They should concentrate more in doing what they do best and that's making peoples cars look fantastic. Paul Dalton has been a superb ambassador for them and it's a little sad it has come to this. They seem to have this mad obsession with brand identity, their products are top notch, let the products speak for themselves. Stop worrying about the fact that someone has displayed a Zymol logo in a slightly wrong size on their website.

I do what I do because I love making peoples pride and joy look special, Dave Zymol and spearsy are probably the same. We do it because we love it!

I wish Paul D all the best for the future, his work is top draw so I'm sure he's not exactly going to struggle - good luck to him!

P.S. This isn't a dig at anyone it's just an opinion.

Darren.

Ade
04-12-2006, 07:25 PM
I dont want to annoy anyone either (just my opinion - as someone who studied Biochemistry at University) but I am quite shocked at the amount of money people are willing to pay for such products. Its doesnt need to be that much of a complex science really, law of diminishing returns and all that...

When you get a detailer in to do your car, you are really paying for their time & skill. The product should be next to nothing. Ive got a Tub of Lard sitting next to my 360, ready to go...

F1 JOE
04-12-2006, 07:49 PM
:laugh: :laugh:
I dont want to annoy anyone either (just my opinion - as someone who studied Biochemistry at University) but I am quite shocked at the amount of money people are willing to pay for such products. Its doesnt need to be that much of a complex science really, law of diminishing returns and all that...

When you get a detailer in to do your car, you are really paying for their time & skill. The product should be next to nothing. Ive got a Tub of Lard sitting next to my 360, ready to go...

Ade

Will Flora have the same effect as LARD???:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Flatcap
04-12-2006, 08:16 PM
When you get a detailer in to do your car, you are really paying for their time & skill. The product should be next to nothing.

Obsolutely spot on Ade, when people get me to do their car they are paying for my expertise and service not a brand!

:thumbsup:

Ade
05-12-2006, 10:15 AM
:laugh: :laugh:

Ade

Will Flora have the same effect as LARD???:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:laugh: :thumbsup: yes mate. Anything fat-based that doesnt eat paint will sort you out. Im going in for a tummy-tuck next week, shame to see it go to waste eh?!?


Obsolutely spot on Ade, when people get me to do their car they are paying for my expertise and service not a brand!

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Nico G
05-12-2006, 05:09 PM
Join the friendly Swissol team Paul - You'll get nothing but gratitude and encouragement for doing for us what you did for Zymol...

Bruce
05-12-2006, 05:21 PM
I dont want to annoy anyone either (just my opinion - as someone who studied Biochemistry at University) but I am quite shocked at the amount of money people are willing to pay for such products. Its doesnt need to be that much of a complex science really, law of diminishing returns and all that...

When you get a detailer in to do your car, you are really paying for their time & skill. The product should be next to nothing. Ive got a Tub of Lard sitting next to my 360, ready to go...

I have recently zymolled the new 430 and it looks amazing anyway quiet at work so been surfing all day. Thing is Concours in UK is 164 , amonth ago it was 139 BUT in the USA it is exactly the same BUT in dollars:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :thumbsdow

Dave Z
05-12-2006, 07:12 PM
Some good points there chaps , but lets put things into context before we all start jumping on the "zymol is to expensive so lets slag it off " wagon

I have got to know paul quite well over the last few months and fully understand his reason for leaving Zymol , I'm probably going to get slated for saying this as the directors of Zymol Europe do read this forum and will no doubt read this thread.

The introduction of license fees for the detailers , I agree with , but only for the new detailers that are buying into an established brand.
Personally and this is just my opinion , i think its a little unfair to ask the established detailers for license fees as we we were the ones who have helped to establish the brand here in the UK.
It would be stupid of me to say that Zymol wouldn't have made it without us , just as it would be stupid to say that we wouldn't have developed our reputations without Zymol.
But one thing is for sure , and that is zymol waxes are the best there is.
When you look at the history of all the zymol detailers , we all have been involved in the trade for a number of years and all tried just about every product available. We were all drawn to Zymol because the finish it puts on a car is simply amazing , not because of how much it costs per tub.
My client base dictates that i have to use the best there is so if there was something better on the market today , believe me , I would use it, I would have to , but there isn't.
I know theres a lot of products out there that do an amazing job and for a lot less cost but when you actually brake it down , is it really that expensive ?
Lets take a pot of Rouge , 50 odd quid a tub , if used properley you'll get a good 40 coverings out of that , if not more.
That works out at about 1 a covering. Take your average bottle of AG or Megs , probably about 15 a throw . How many coverings do you get from a bottle ?
So when you work it out pound for pound , then add the protection that Zymol gives into the equation, its money well spent in my opinion.

Paul's decision to move on doesn't suprise me , but dont knock Zymol for trying to protect their brand.
Zymol is a premium end business , just like Porsche and Ferrari , if you were to put an official Ferrari logo on your website , they would come down on you like a ton of bricks , so why shouldn't Zymol do the same.

I think its just natural progression for Paul to move on , its really no different to a technican at Porsche going out on his own as an independant.

Are you still awake:grin:

barabus
05-12-2006, 07:17 PM
I hear yer Dave, well said :dude:

MARKY 355
05-12-2006, 08:17 PM
Well said,i take your point dave:thumbsup:

Flatcap
05-12-2006, 08:35 PM
I read many of your points with interest Dave and I agree with some of them. However, there no way you'll ever convince me Royale is worth 7118. I've seen the results and they're impressive but they're no better than results I can achieve with a wax costing a fraction of the cost. I respect Zymol although I have certain issues about how aggressive they can be, again, this is just my opinion.

The whole company is set up around one marketing rule....the fact that virtually nobody ever buys the cheapest, and virtually nobody ever buys the most expensive, they buy in the middle. So by setting the top of the range price sky high, you move the price of the middle of the range, and make the bottom of the range, no matter how expensive, look cheap. That's why Destiny is one of their most popular sellers.

The other thing I don't agree with is charging someone 6000 or what ever it is for the right to sell and use THEIR products, that's just ludicrous.

I got an email from Paul the other night which was sent to me in confidence and that will remain. I'm just highly dissapointed that someone who's done so much for the company has been treated like he has.

Shame on them that's all....

I'll get down off my soap box now...:grin:

tonyspears
05-12-2006, 09:02 PM
Well i use to be a Zymol detailer when it first came to the UK and i was truly amazed with the product and the finish i could achieve.

But after moving over to Swissvax(swissol) its the same product basically but alot easier to use and they do a wider range of products and its a bit cheaper also.

I like the rest of the detailers love making a car look great, as Catflap pointed out you can achieve a good finish without Swissvax and Zymol products but its the natural products that are completely save to use which is what customers like to hear and they last alot longer .

I am shocked of hearing about Paul leaving Zymol after all the marketing he has done for Zymol especially on the tv ,you would of thought Zymol would really look after such as the likes of Paul Dalton and Dave.

The other thing I don't agree with is charging someone 6000 or what ever it is for the right to sell and use THEIR products, that's just ludicrous.

Yes i totally agree as Dave said if they have to charge a detailer to become authorised then maybe ,but not every year after i certainly know what i would do.

We at Swissvax dont have a fee to be Authorised ,Dave you should have a go with Swissvax you will be impressed like i was.

ted 191
05-12-2006, 09:06 PM
I thought swissol was being closed down by zymol after the court case :huh:

tonyspears
05-12-2006, 09:13 PM
Not at all Swissol has changed to Swissvax due to court case ,it is the opposite its growing rapidly .

Here is the outcome of the court case
http://swissol.com/E/GB/us_legal1.htm

GrahamS
05-12-2006, 09:17 PM
Not at all Swissol has changed to Swissvax due to court case ,it is the opposite its growing rapidly .

Here is the outcome of the court case
http://swissol.com/E/GB/us_legal1.htm
They haven't got round to changing their URL yet though :laugh:

I changed to Swissol, sorry Swissvax(terrible choice of new name :thumbsdow )

Love it to bits :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

tonyspears
05-12-2006, 09:22 PM
Yes i agree i didn't like it either it sounds like a vacuum:grin: but you soon get use to it and the product is no different.

The new name has to be in place by March 2007 :thumbsup:

ted 191
05-12-2006, 09:22 PM
I`m useing zymol carbon wax,it`s ok but not as good as all the hype would suggest, any difference to other types of wax, be it zymol or swissvax ?

tonyspears
05-12-2006, 09:26 PM
What others have you used ?Are you using the HD cleanse first?

ted 191
05-12-2006, 09:30 PM
What others have you used ?Are you using the HD cleanse first?

Clay bar first ,HD ,then wax. I get a good finish to the touch(:laugh: ) but would like a better shine

Flatcap
05-12-2006, 09:36 PM
I changed to Swissol, sorry Swissvax(terrible choice of new name

Agree with that Graham, sounds like a vacuum manufacturer!

However, and I can't believe I'm going to agree with spearsy on this as we very rarely agree on much, Swissol(vax) 'Best fo Show' is very very good! Infact, I might even get some for myself! Can you get me a discount Tony????

I use many waxes, P21S, Pinnacle Souveran and Chemical Guys XXX and 50/50 to name just a few and as I always say - if the surface is prepped correctly you'll get excellent results!

Myself and Bryan from Drive n Shine are just in the process of bringing over a little known Canadian wax that's manufactured by an ex-Zymol chemist so I'll be interested to see how good that is as it's had rave reviews.

GrahamS
05-12-2006, 09:40 PM
Agree with that Graham, sounds like a vacuum manufacturer!

However, and I can't believe I'm going to agree with spearsy on this as we very rarely agree on much, Swissol(vax) 'Best fo Show' is very very good! Infact, I might even get some for myself! Can you get me a discount Tony????

I use many waxes, P21S, Pinnacle Souveran and Chemical Guys XXX and 50/50 to name just a few and as I always say - if the surface is prepped correctly you'll get excellent results!

Myself and Bryan from Drive n Shine are just in the process of bringing over a little known Canadian wax that's manufactured by an ex-Zymol chemist so I'll be interested to see how good that is as it's had rave reviews.
Best of show is the one I use :dude: Very impressed with the shine and durability although, if I'm being honest, I've seen finishes just as good from products costing a whole lot less per application

spidermanUK
06-12-2006, 06:52 PM
the more expensive waxes just contain more carnauba wax which will give it more depth and also longer lasting protection.

What? Like this you mean?:grin:

For the record, this was achieved by Zymol Dave using Zymol Royale:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Fraccie
06-12-2006, 07:48 PM
I don`t use zymol as I have always said I would never pay for it.I use Harly Wax.However, after seeing SteveW`s and Dave`s car ,in the flesh, that have had zymol on them, it is very impressive stuff. If people want to pay for and use Zymol then all well and good, it is thier perogative. If others don`t, again, that is thier option.

In fairness to Dave, he has ALWAYS said to use whatever you are happy with, I find that refreshingly honest and admire him for that.

:thumbsup:

GrahamS
07-12-2006, 01:45 AM
I've had to delete a number of posts that could be construed as self promotion.

Non-sponsors need to remember that any posts of a commercial nature run the risk of being deleted and are against forum rules

elite
11-12-2006, 06:26 PM
Join the friendly Swissol team Paul - You'll get nothing but gratitude and encouragement for doing for us what you did for Zymol...


IMO Zymol is better in terms of products and customer servicing and I have definately seen an improvement in results after 6 months of back to back testing.

Ravi 355
14-12-2006, 11:04 PM
Some good points there chaps , but lets put things into context before we all start jumping on the "zymol is to expensive so lets slag it off " wagon

I have got to know paul quite well over the last few months and fully understand his reason for leaving Zymol , I'm probably going to get slated for saying this as the directors of Zymol Europe do read this forum and will no doubt read this thread.

The introduction of license fees for the detailers , I agree with , but only for the new detailers that are buying into an established brand.
Personally and this is just my opinion , i think its a little unfair to ask the established detailers for license fees as we we were the ones who have helped to establish the brand here in the UK.
It would be stupid of me to say that Zymol wouldn't have made it without us , just as it would be stupid to say that we wouldn't have developed our reputations without Zymol.
But one thing is for sure , and that is zymol waxes are the best there is.
When you look at the history of all the zymol detailers , we all have been involved in the trade for a number of years and all tried just about every product available. We were all drawn to Zymol because the finish it puts on a car is simply amazing , not because of how much it costs per tub.
My client base dictates that i have to use the best there is so if there was something better on the market today , believe me , I would use it, I would have to , but there isn't.
I know theres a lot of products out there that do an amazing job and for a lot less cost but when you actually brake it down , is it really that expensive ?
Lets take a pot of Rouge , 50 odd quid a tub , if used properley you'll get a good 40 coverings out of that , if not more.
That works out at about 1 a covering. Take your average bottle of AG or Megs , probably about 15 a throw . How many coverings do you get from a bottle ?
So when you work it out pound for pound , then add the protection that Zymol gives into the equation, its money well spent in my opinion.

Paul's decision to move on doesn't suprise me , but dont knock Zymol for trying to protect their brand.
Zymol is a premium end business , just like Porsche and Ferrari , if you were to put an official Ferrari logo on your website , they would come down on you like a ton of bricks , so why shouldn't Zymol do the same.

I think its just natural progression for Paul to move on , its really no different to a technican at Porsche going out on his own as an independant.

Are you still awake:grin:

Dave you do a fantastic job and I wouldn't entrust any of my cars to anyone else. However I think that Zymol Uk trying to charge detailers, existing or otherwise, to promote the Zymol brand (which can only be good thing for zymol) on their website is a complete piss take. TBH mate I would still use you if you used other quality waxes like swissol who aren't going to try and put their hand in your pocket just so that you can say you use a quality product.

Just my 2p's worth :grin:

Fraccie
14-12-2006, 11:18 PM
Dave you do a fantastic job and I wouldn't entrust any of my cars to anyone else. However I think that Zymol Uk trying to charge detailers, existing or otherwise, to promote the Zymol brand (which can only be good thing for zymol) on their website is a complete piss take. TBH mate I would still use you if you used other quality waxes like swissol who aren't going to try and put their hand in your pocket just so that you can say you use a quality product.

Just my 2p's worth :grin:

Good call Ravi....:thumbsup:

johnm400
19-03-2007, 10:31 PM
But one thing is for sure , and that is zymol waxes are the best there is.


How are they the best?

I will say one thing;the UK's largest supplier of cleaning chemicals to the motor trade have tested Zymol wax in their lab and found it to contain nothing superior than the 10 quid tubs of carnauba wax they sell. Now this is sure to start the Zymol fans going off on one but the fact is you cannot argue with some of the best chemists in the UK.

Sorry for my first post to question what you say,ive seen your work and you sure know what your doing but i wanted to know your opinion on why Zymol is the best.

Murph7355
20-03-2007, 10:15 AM
...Sorry for my first post to question what you say,ive seen your work and you sure know what your doing but i wanted to know your opinion on why Zymol is the best.
John

I'm no pro-detailer or a chemist, but have seen the results of these waxes on my cars and they are superior to anything I've had on the car before.

Just a thought, but chemically pretty much every loaf of bread has identical ingredients. Yet you can tell marked differences between the flavours, textures etc of the bread.

Similarly many fuels are chemically the same but perform differently.

More trivially, loads of people like custard, jelly, fruit, sponge and cream separately but hate trifle.

Perhaps there's something in the way the ingredients are combined, stored and used that makes the difference? And perhaps this is another of those areas where mere chemistry cannot give the full story?

Of course there's always the possibility that the amount we spend on them makes the most difference (psychologically) :grin:

tonyh
20-03-2007, 10:18 AM
More trivially, loads of people like custard, jelly, fruit, sponge and cream separately but hate trifle.



:huh: :grin:

F1RGY
20-03-2007, 10:45 AM
How are they the best?

I will say one thing;the UK's largest supplier of cleaning chemicals to the motor trade have tested Zymol wax in their lab and found it to contain nothing superior than the 10 quid tubs of carnauba wax they sell. Now this is sure to start the Zymol fans going off on one but the fact is you cannot argue with some of the best chemists in the UK.

Sorry for my first post to question what you say,ive seen your work and you sure know what your doing but i wanted to know your opinion on why Zymol is the best.

One might be able to argue about content and price but not the result, I have been using it for Concours compititions for many years .The number of owners that use it on this site alone speaks volumes Hey who cares if it costs a few quid more its nice to use and does not take any of the paint off like most others

johnm400
27-03-2007, 04:55 PM
One might be able to argue about content and price but not the result, I have been using it for Concours compititions for many years .The number of owners that use it on this site alone speaks volumes Hey who cares if it costs a few quid more its nice to use and does not take any of the paint off like most others

Hi Ray,hope my post didnt sound too argumentative. The point of me making the question was Dave stated that Zymol are the best waxes you can buy. Thats a fairly large assumption to make.

What i see here is a car that when it leaves the factory already has superb paintwork much better than your run of the mill Ford or Vauxhall for instance. You already have a great base to work from. I know Dave spends a hell of a lot of time prepping and polishing the paintwork before the wax even touches the car and IMO that is the most important stage of the job. Its this stage that really gives the wax the oppurtunity to create the reflections and lustre that his jobs boast. Now im not for one minute saying Zymol is rubbish,its obviously one of the better waxes out there but when tested by some of the best chemists in the UK it was found that the ingredients where no different to that of a certain companys carnuaba gold paste wax. Now you could argue that there may be other things in there that add to the make up but these things would be picked up by Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry and other laboratory tests.

I honestly do believe that there is too many mind games going on when using Zymol. People think they have paid a huge amount for this wax and so it has to be the best. One could argue that anyone that owns a Ferrari can afford to pay the prices of Zymol wax so dont really care if they can get a cheaper product that will do the same job. One could also argue that they enjoy scooping the wax out of the beautifully sculptured tub as they spend an entire day applying it wheras scooping out of a plain white tub wouldnt give the same sene of satisfaction or peace of mind as you wax your pride and joy. On Daves part he could argue that to be seen using Zymol by his customers would give his customers satisfaction that he is using the most expensive products available on his customers cars.

Hope i dont sound as though im trying to discourage people from using Zymol,i always think if people are happy with what they are doing then carry on but i just thought id add a little bit of debate to the thread.

John

F1RGY
27-03-2007, 05:17 PM
I only speak from experiance I dont want to blow my own trumpet but have won nearly every major concours comp in the last eight years possible . I mostly prepare my own cars (retired now tee shirt ect) and have had the best results with Zymol products I dont know how they are made and dont care Their products work for me are easy to use and give great results Pricey yes but am i bothered ?????:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

PS more important it does not take the paint off like other products i have used

candellara
27-03-2007, 05:47 PM
430 looks splendid as ever Ray:thumbsup:

Which Zymol wax do you use?

johnm400
27-03-2007, 06:06 PM
I only speak from experiance I dont want to blow my own trumpet but have won nearly every major concours comp in the last eight years possible . I mostly prepare my own cars (retired now tee shirt ect) and have had the best results with Zymol products I dont know how they are made and dont care Their products work for me are easy to use and give great results Pricey yes but am i bothered ?????:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

PS more important it does not take the paint off like other products i have used


Well done on winning the comps :thumbsup: . Dont you think its the prep work that you have done prior to adding the wax though that has given you the edge? Also the attention to detail you obviously apply.If it was as simple as you winning because you had used Zymol then surely the majority of other cars in the comp would of been as good as your because they too used Zymol.Why didnt the other Zymol users win? This is the point im getting at. The pictures on here are no doubt stunning and beautifully detailed cars but how much of that is down to the work carried out before the wax was applied? Id say 90% of the lustre is acheived before the wax is even applied.


On the subject of removing the paint im a little confused. Any car that is not clear coated will have some trace of colour on the applicator sponge after the wax has been applied. It would simply defy science if it didnt.

Dave Z
27-03-2007, 06:52 PM
On the subject of removing the paint im a little confused. Any car that is not clear coated will have some trace of colour on the applicator sponge after the wax has been applied. It would simply defy science if it didnt.

Not necessarily true old chap , zymol waxes are non abrasive , thats the point , they wont remove any paint , HD cleanse , yes , it will remove any dead/oxidised paint from a non laquered finish , but not the waxes:thumbsup:

F1RGY
27-03-2007, 10:40 PM
[QUOTE=johnm400;218114]Well done on winning the comps :thumbsup: . Dont you think its the prep work that you have done prior to adding the wax

Yes but dont you read so well i only use ZYMOL products I dont use anything but ZYMOL products in the prep work as well I chukked all other polishes and crap out of my garage years ago Please dont reply i love the stuff ,know it works for me ,you dont agree lets agree to disagree MATE




ZYMOL!!!!!!!!!

Fraccie
27-03-2007, 10:44 PM
Ray, do you like Zymol products perchance.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

F1RGY
27-03-2007, 10:50 PM
Ray, do you like Zymol products perchance.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yes matey and Canderella i use Royale with a lifetime refill promise Not sure using it on my LWB Transit is the best use of it but ho hum :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Murph7355
27-03-2007, 11:05 PM
John

Your opening posst noted:

"...the UK's largest supplier of cleaning chemicals to the motor trade have tested Zymol wax in their lab and found it to contain nothing superior than the 10 quid tubs of carnauba wax they sell..."

Do you not think that said "UK's largest supplier of cleaning chemicals to the motor trade" might not have a vested interest?

I'm not doubting that their chemists found no difference. Maybe their chemists aren't as good as some of those from the other manufacturers?

Contrary to your thoughts in your later posts, many people on here do care about what money they spend. I for one would never, ever have dreamed of paying these amounts for car polish.

But I've seen the results. I've used Autoglym and various others and Zymol gives a better finish in my opinion (deeper shine, better colour, longer lasting, easier application etc. Smells nicer too).

You can put what you like in a gas spectrometer, but it will not be able to tell you these things. As I mentioned in my other post, chemically an awful lot of things are arguably identical, but the end result is often very different.

The end results where polish is concerned are often very subjective. Numbers won't tell you the full story. Your other manufacturer should bear this in mind and perhaps focus less on chemical analysis and more on the end result.

They might, for example, want to try a back to back test - half a car done with Zymol, half with their chemically identical product? Get an independent pro to do it (I don't believe Dave is inextricably tied to Zymol any longer?) and get some of the mugs on here who swear by the expensive stuff (self included) to judge.

I'd even be prepared to provide the car :)

Fraccie
27-03-2007, 11:13 PM
Not sure using it on my LWB Transit is the best use of it but ho hum :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Bet it works wonders on the chassis....:grin:


John,

I'd even be prepared to provide the car :)

Mine is in more need, so there you go, two cars to prove that "other waxes" are better, I would bet money that we could get a 512M as well...:thumbsup:

PS, I don`t use zymol, but i`ve seen other cars with it.

Murph7355
27-03-2007, 11:16 PM
...Mine is in more need...
I'm not sure about that at the moment :)

spidermanUK
27-03-2007, 11:32 PM
TBH I don't really care if there's a "better" wax available, all I know is that the results that Dave and Alex achieve every month when they visit are remarkable! I'm sure 95% of that result is the skill and expertise they employ in the application!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

TBH the price per application I pay is incredible value for money, but there again, I guaranteed that I would use Dave's services for a year to get that price!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: And I guaranteed it with my chequebook as well! :cry3:

I have complete faith in Dave to choose the best product for my cars and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future!:thumbsup:

I have the utmost admiration for Ray and anyone like him who has the patience to achieve results akin to Dave's, I simply can't be bothered!:laugh:

johnm400
28-03-2007, 01:12 AM
Not necessarily true old chap , zymol waxes are non abrasive , thats the point , they wont remove any paint , HD cleanse , yes , it will remove any dead/oxidised paint from a non laquered finish , but not the waxes:thumbsup:


Dave,nice to speak to you! Some great jobs youve done looking at the pics.

I must dis-agree with you about the Zymol wax not leaving colour on the applicator pad though. You state Zymol wax is non abrasive.So is the Carnuaba Gold that i refer to. It is a premium blend of palm wax with no abrasive's. If i was to apply it on a wing for example and turn the pad there would be red on the pad if id waxed a red non clearcoat car.The same applies to Zymol waxes. If i use Zymol there is colour left on my pad but i dont class the stuff as abrasive.Its just the law of science that rubbing a chemical against a non clear coated paint will naturally take some of the colour with it.

johnm400
28-03-2007, 01:20 AM
TBH I don't really care if there's a "better" wax available, all I know is that the results that Dave and Alex achieve every month when they visit are remarkable! I'm sure 95% of that result is the skill and expertise they employ in the application!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

TBH the price per application I pay is incredible value for money, but there again, I guaranteed that I would use Dave's services for a year to get that price!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: And I guaranteed it with my chequebook as well! :cry3:

I have complete faith in Dave to choose the best product for my cars and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future!:thumbsup:

I have the utmost admiration for Ray and anyone like him who has the patience to achieve results akin to Dave's, I simply can't be bothered!:laugh:

I agree,both Daves results and Rays look outstanding but here is the point im getting at.The results you see are the result of hours of prep work not simply Zymol wax. Im not trying to slag off Zymol waxes here im trying to prove a point that the lustre and gloss acheived on these cars are the result of man hours in the prep stage rather than any miracle wax. The thing that i had to question was when Dave stated Zymol waxes are the best.

johnm400
28-03-2007, 01:29 AM
[QUOTE=johnm400;218114]Well done on winning the comps :thumbsup: . Dont you think its the prep work that you have done prior to adding the wax

Yes but dont you read so well i only use ZYMOL products I dont use anything but ZYMOL products in the prep work as well I chukked all other polishes and crap out of my garage years ago Please dont reply i love the stuff ,know it works for me ,you dont agree lets agree to disagree MATE




ZYMOL!!!!!!!!!

Hi again Ray.

You state you use nothing but zymol products. If thats the case,surely anyone using only Zymol will create as good a finish as you acheive? Maybe not? Maybe the finish is in proportion to the amount of time and techniques used to create the finish rather than just the product used??

No probs,we agree to dis-agree,hope i didnt come across as argumentative or arrogant.Just wanted to create a discussion about detailing/valeting and different methods/products:thumbsup:

F1RGY
28-03-2007, 06:43 AM
[QUOTE=Ray430Red;218287]

Hi again Ray.

You state you use nothing but zymol products. If thats the case,surely anyone using only Zymol will create as good a finish as you acheive? Maybe not? Maybe the finish is in proportion to the amount of time and techniques used to create the finish rather than just the product used??

No probs,we agree to dis-agree,hope i didnt come across as argumentative or arrogant.Just wanted to create a discussion about detailing/valeting and different methods/products:thumbsup:

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Murph7355
28-03-2007, 07:12 AM
John - you're looking like you have a point to prove? Do you work for said cleansing firm?

I've tried cheap stuff and Zymol - I've tried it personally so the time/effort quotients are not relevant (though I actually spent less time with the Zymol).

I'm Northern, so tight by nature. If the cheap stuff was just as good, I'd be using it. In my opinion it wasn't. And your chemists can argue all day long about compounds, it doesn't change this.

If you'd like to organise a test, my offer stands. But telling people that what they've personally experienced is wrong isn't really going to get you anywhere. Is it.

F1RGY
28-03-2007, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE=Murph7355;218338]John - you're looking like you have a point to prove? Do you work for said cleansing firm?

I think you have hit the nail on the head Murph This John appears to know to much techy stuff ,chemists ect but has not mentioned much about the practical side .So come on matey show yourself tell all and show us some pics of your Ferrari (or one you have prepared with the gear you use) Come on i dare you :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

johnm400
28-03-2007, 02:25 PM
John - you're looking like you have a point to prove? Do you work for said cleansing firm?

I've tried cheap stuff and Zymol - I've tried it personally so the time/effort quotients are not relevant (though I actually spent less time with the Zymol).

I'm Northern, so tight by nature. If the cheap stuff was just as good, I'd be using it. In my opinion it wasn't. And your chemists can argue all day long about compounds, it doesn't change this.

If you'd like to organise a test, my offer stands. But telling people that what they've personally experienced is wrong isn't really going to get you anywhere. Is it.

Hi Murph,no i dont work for the said company. Im a Valetor up here in the north west and im a general car cleaning enthusiast in my spare time.I love to try different products.

Im not trying to tell anyone anything.if you read back through my posts i have never tried to tell anyone that one product is better than another nor have i ever said that Zymol isnt good stuff. The only person who has done that was Dave who stated Zymol are the best waxes available. Thats where my argument came from. The finish Dave is acheiving is relative to the prep work he does not the layer of Zymol wax applied.

I have used Zymol and seen Zymol used by others and side by side on a car that was not prepped eg,buffed/polished(BMW Z3) it did not give any better results than the Carnuaba Gold i speak of.

johnm400
28-03-2007, 02:40 PM
[QUOTE=Murph7355;218338]John - you're looking like you have a point to prove? Do you work for said cleansing firm?

I think you have hit the nail on the head Murph This John appears to know to much techy stuff ,chemists ect but has not mentioned much about the practical side .So come on matey show yourself tell all and show us some pics of your Ferrari (or one you have prepared with the gear you use) Come on i dare you :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Of course ive mentioned the practical side.Ive given my opinion that the end result is relative to the amount of prep work done before hand rather than the wax used.

Ray,you seem to just want to take the mick rather than share some of your award winning techniques. Im sorry if ive upset you by not agreeing that Zymol is some miracle wax but i thought that was the whole point of a discussion board?

Fraccie
28-03-2007, 03:39 PM
John, I can get my car to Wigan any day of the week if you would like to demonstrate your prowess....:wink3: :wink3: :wink3:

paintshield
28-03-2007, 04:19 PM
Hi Murph,no i dont work for the said company. Im a Valetor up here in the north west and im a general car cleaning enthusiast in my spare time.I love to try different products.

Im not trying to tell anyone anything.if you read back through my posts i have never tried to tell anyone that one product is better than another nor have i ever said that Zymol isnt good stuff. The only person who has done that was Dave who stated Zymol are the best waxes available. Thats where my argument came from. The finish Dave is acheiving is relative to the prep work he does not the layer of Zymol wax applied.

I have used Zymol and seen Zymol used by others and side by side on a car that was not prepped eg,buffed/polished(BMW Z3) it did not give any better results than the Carnuaba Gold i speak of.


Hi John, so you are a competitor to dave in essence then if you are in the valeting business in the northwest (is that not where you are based Dave)??

Then in the light of that does this not constitute a commercial series of posts or am i I misunderstanding how the rules work??

Forgive me if I am just an old trench digger you see:)


Cheers

Tom

F1RGY
28-03-2007, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=Ray430Red;218433]

Of course ive mentioned the practical side.Ive given my opinion that the end result is relative to the amount of prep work done before hand rather than the wax used.

Ray,you seem to just want to take the mick rather than share some of your award winning techniques. Im sorry if ive upset you by not agreeing that Zymol is some miracle wax but i thought that was the whole point of a discussion board?

Yes i must admit sometimes i like to take the Mick But now you have told us you profession lets see some evidence and pics and share wth us the products you use You never know we might be swayed:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

spidermanUK
28-03-2007, 04:23 PM
[QUOTE=johnm400;218474]

Yes i must admit sometimes i like to take the Mick But now you have told us you profession lets see some evidence and pics and share wth us the products you use You never know we might be swayed:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Is this another "spot the difference" competition, or have you developed a stutter Ray? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

F1RGY
28-03-2007, 04:28 PM
[QUOTE=Ray430Red;218515]

Is this another "spot the difference" competition, or have you developed a stutter Ray? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA sorry M8 thought i had posted two different pictures (must get some new specs ) so dont waste time trying to spot the difference cos there aint any HAHAHAHHAHA:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Fraccie
28-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Hi John, so you are a competitor to dave in essence then if you are in the valeting business in the northwest (is that not where you are based Dave)??

Then in the light of that does this not constitute a commercial series of posts or am i I misunderstanding how the rules work??

Forgive me if I am just an old trench digger you see:)


Cheers

Tom


Dave is based anywhere he is needed, so in essence John is a competitor. Dave also sponsers the forum to aid his popularity and biscuit eating addiction. It would be folly to, or appear to, "big up" one`s own business on here, eh Tom....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Dammit, I wasted 3 minutes of my life on Rays "spot the difference Competition", only for Clive to point out the error of my ways....:thumbsup:

paintshield
28-03-2007, 04:32 PM
Dave is based anywhere he is needed, so in essence John is a competitor. Dave also sponsers the forum to aid his popularity and biscuit eating addiction. It would be folly to, or appear to, "big up" one`s own business on here, eh Tom....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Dammit, I wasted 3 minutes of my life on Rays "spot the difference Competition", only for Clive to point out the error of my ways....:thumbsup:

Time to turn out the entrenching tools on that note I think Ade:laugh: :laugh:

F1RGY
28-03-2007, 04:33 PM
:laugh:


Dammit, I wasted 3 minutes of my life on Rays "spot the difference Competition", only for Clive to point out the error of my ways....:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]


Dont worry Fraccie as a sweetner i will clean your car Trouble is you will need a passport to bring it to the outlands of Wiltshire :laugh: :laugh:

spidermanUK
28-03-2007, 04:36 PM
Dont worry Fraccie as a sweetner i will clean your car Trouble is you will need a passport to bring it to the outlands of Wiltshire :laugh: :laugh:

Don't go Ade,not since them thar West country boys found out that Northerners taste like chicken :grin: :grin: :grin:

paintshield
28-03-2007, 04:38 PM
Don't go Ade,not since them thar West country boys found out that Northerners taste like chicken :grin: :grin: :grin:


OMG I could throw a dozen one liners in off that last line but this would get moved to the bad boys zone then:laugh: :laugh:


Cheers

Fraccie
28-03-2007, 04:44 PM
Dont worry Fraccie as a sweetner i will clean your car Trouble is you will need a passport to bring it to the outlands of Wiltshire :laugh: :laugh:

I have a Visa for Kent and Sussex this weekend, do I need another for Wiltshire....:huh:

Saying that, I may heed Clive`s words of wisdom....:grin:

sletti
28-03-2007, 04:49 PM
I have a Visa for Kent and Sussex this weekend, do I need another for Wiltshire....:huh:

Don't think you'll need a Visa, but you probably need some jabs to be on the safe side.:tongue3:

mal
28-03-2007, 05:01 PM
Don't think you'll need a Visa, but you probably need some jabs to be on the safe side.:tongue3:

You'll need a scottish visa though to go through Kens front door

spidermanUK
28-03-2007, 05:01 PM
Don't think you'll need a Visa, but you probably need some jabs to be on the safe side.:tongue3:

Don't waste time on jabs Ade, perfect your uppercut instead :tongue3:

KenC
28-03-2007, 07:21 PM
Hi John, so you are a competitor to dave in essence then if you are in the valeting business in the northwest (is that not where you are based Dave)??

Then in the light of that does this not constitute a commercial series of posts or am i I misunderstanding how the rules work??

Forgive me if I am just an old trench digger you see:)


Cheers

Tom

No comment :lipsrseal .

paintshield
28-03-2007, 07:26 PM
No comment :lipsrseal .

sometimes less is more Ken nicely done

Hud
28-03-2007, 07:26 PM
You'll need a scottish visa though to go through Kens front door

and wear wellies going through his back door :grin: :shocked: :shocked:

Fraccie
28-03-2007, 07:27 PM
No comment :lipsrseal .


sometimes less is more Ken nicely done

Kissed and made up have we....:wink3:

candellara
28-03-2007, 07:28 PM
I only speak from experiance I dont want to blow my own trumpet but have won nearly every major concours comp in the last eight years possible . I mostly prepare my own cars (retired now tee shirt ect) and have had the best results with Zymol products I dont know how they are made and dont care Their products work for me are easy to use and give great results Pricey yes but am i bothered ?????:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

PS more important it does not take the paint off like other products i have used

Have to say i'm with Ray on this one....after using hundreds of different products over the last 20 years (except Zymol) - i'm now truly converted. I'm no chemist but what i think Zymol HAVE got right is the overall product experience:

Price - (although expensive - what a small price to pay knowing that your 10/20/30/40/100/ 200k P&J is protected)
Product range - the Zymol prompts DIY users to cover the complete process - Claying / HD Cleanse and then wax (rather than a quick wash/chamois and a bit of Autoglym) - You ARE going to get better results if the complete Zymol process is followed.

I'm not saying that no other product will provide the same results (i'm sure it might in the hands of Dave Zymol and other experts alike) but the Zymol process isn't just about waxing the car - it's the complete A to B. That's one thing Zymol have got right - and good on them:thumbsup:

KenC
28-03-2007, 07:30 PM
Kissed and made up have we....:wink3:

In a manner of speaking :thumbsup:

candellara
28-03-2007, 07:37 PM
Have to say i'm with Ray on this one....after using hundreds of different products over the last 20 years (except Zymol) - i'm now truly converted. I'm no chemist but what i think Zymol HAVE got right is the overall product experience:

Price - (although expensive - what a small price to pay knowing that your 10/20/30/40/100/ 200k P&J is protected)
Product range - the Zymol prompts DIY users to cover the complete process - Claying / HD Cleanse and then wax (rather than a quick wash/chamois and a bit of Autoglym) - You ARE going to get better results if the complete Zymol process is followed.

I'm not saying that no other product will provide the same results (i'm sure it might in the hands of Dave Zymol and other experts alike) but the Zymol process isn't just about waxing the car - it's the complete A to B. That's one thing Zymol have got right - and good on them:thumbsup:

Must add - that i've only used the very cheapest of their products (so far) - Carbon and Ray is using their most expensive - Royale (about sums it up really 348 - Carbon / Concours winning 430 - Royale):cry3: :cry3: :cry3: :cry3:

PS - Anyone got any dregs of Concours or Ital sitting in their fridge they want shot of?:laugh: :laugh:

PPS: I know i'm as tight as a ducks **** - but i'll continue to be until i've saved enough for my CS

Dave Z
28-03-2007, 09:08 PM
Why do I like Zymol so much ?????

John , i have been in the business of detailing cars now since 1998.
originally trained by Auto glym and avid user of their products i set about building my reputation as a professional detailer. I did this long before Zymol had built up any reputation here in the UK , so I can honestly say i didn't become an authorised Zymol detailer purely because i thought it would gain me access to a high end client base , like it possibly would if you became one today, because in all honesty , now one had ever heard of it.
I always strived to work with the high end market and within 2 years , still using Ag , I was doing the Geneva motor show for Aston Martin , a company I still work with today.
I always tried out different products to see which got the best results , I was doing a lot of motorshows and car launches around the uk and in europe so this gave me the opportunity to try different products out.
I soon moved from AG products to meguiars (again before they had any reputation in the uk)as i found their waxes and preparation products to give a better finish and then onto mothers.
I even tried the "said brand" that you go on about long before they developed their carnauba gold.
So I think its fair to say that I tried every product out there.
In January 2000 I was fortunate enough to do the Auto sports show for Prodrive where their scooby had been detailed with zymol before the show , to say i was impressed with the finish would be an understatement, not just the shine but how it brought out the metallic in the paint .
It just stood head and shoulders above anything I'd tried in the past.
It was only after getting in touch with the distributors that I was given the opportunity to become an authorised zymol detailer , they were looking for professional detailers to help build up recognition for the brand in the uk , so I spent a few days with them , they were happy with my skills and the rest is history.
I spent 7 years as an authorised zymol detailer moving up the range from concours to Vintage to Royale , but have always tried new products to use as a comparison.
I've seen a massive surge in new products over the last 5 years and lets face it theres some cracking waxes , sealants and preparation products around now at a fraction of what Zymol costs but none of them match the longevity, protection and colour enhancement that you get with Zymol or any other high concentrate carnauba wax.
I also like the fact that it is natural , I'm not a big fan of chemical finishes.
I have now doubt that carnauba gold paste is a good product , do you honestly think i've not tried it ?
But does it match up with the higher end zymol or swissvax products (I've tried them aswell:wink3: )
That would have to be a no!
Is it as good as some of the lower grade zymol or swissvax waxes, I would say yes it is.
As for the chemists doing there tests , I can only imagine (unless you can prove otherwise)that they have tested against the lower end carnauba waxes,
I doubt very much they've gone out and bought a tub of Royale to test.

Some of the things you're saying John are right .
Yes , preparation plays a big part in the end result , especially now with the introduction of the menzerna/blackfire range of compounds and with 3M also developing their range.
We can now get a car to look as good a "zymolled car" with just paint correction but when we combine that with the zymol process the results are mindblowing.
We could quite easily use a cheaper brand of wax , whether it be a carnauba one or a synthetic one and our customers would be ecstatic with the results, but would that finish last ?
Again I'd have to say no.
And thats why I rate zymol so much , its not just the shine , its the overall finish , colour/ metallic enhancement etc , protection and longevity of it that does it for me .
I've said this loads of times before , if a company was to develop a product that beat it , whether it be Auto glym , megs, swissvax,auto smart or even the wax being developed by Paul Dalton himself ,

I would use it ,

I'm no longer tied to the Zymol brand as you probably know , so if you think you've got something better old chap , send it down to me and I'll put it through its paces
:thumbsup:

PS DONT CALL ME DAVE ZYMOL , YOU'LL GET ME SHOT:grin:

F1RGY
28-03-2007, 10:34 PM
Well said Dave i think that really sums it up We wont call you Dave z8888 any more but has anybody got any objection to me changing my avatar to RAYZYMOL for a laugh as John knows i like to take the Mick .By the way John i have some Ferrari friends up in the Lake District that think they might know of you ,do you operate in this neck of the woods M8 ???? Let us know and i will put them in touch :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

johnm400
21-04-2007, 06:36 PM
Here you go,Carnauba gold on my MR2. Please note,this has not had the labour intensive paint treatment that Dave does before applying the Zymol. I did buff/polish the car around about a year ago as it was badly faded when i got it. Its had Carnauba gold applied about once every 3 months since.

[img=http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2900/mycar031jx1.th.jpg] (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mycar031jx1.jpg)

[img=http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/13/mycar033nl7.th.jpg] (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mycar033nl7.jpg)

[img=http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2484/mycar046fq7.th.jpg] (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mycar046fq7.jpg)

Cheers,John.

Angelis
21-04-2007, 09:56 PM
Dave,

Give us your top 10 waxes. :thumbsup:

steve f
21-04-2007, 10:06 PM
Well said Dave i think that really sums it up We wont call you Dave z8888 any more but has anybody got any objection to me changing my avatar to RAYZYMOL for a laugh as John knows i like to take the Mick .By the way John i have some Ferrari friends up in the Lake District that think they might know of you ,do you operate in this neck of the woods M8 ???? Let us know and i will put them in touch :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

i am changing to stevezymolswissol also willing to add anything else for a free job :laugh: :laugh: