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Simon
12-12-2005, 01:36 AM
Unfortunately 95% of cars have swirl marks, even brand new ones.

Swirl marks effect the finish on a car as they distort the light and stop it reflecting the true image.

As good as Zymol hd cleanse is it will not remove swirl marks and does only fill in some swirl marks, about 30-40% even after 2-3 goes over (remember it’s not abrasive).

Below is a picture of a car with quite bad swirl marks, note the true finish, these results were done by a novice, using a 2 stage process with a pc (random orbiter, very safe). These results are before it has been polished and then waxed (to seal the finish). So you could imagine just how good it would look after a Zymol treatment.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/swirlmarks.jpg

A Random Orbiter is what everyone should start with. Very safe to use with amazing results.:thumbsup:

A Rotary is only recommended after you have mastered a Random Orbiter. Would recommend for only a professional to use. Faster than a Random and makes easy work of much more serious swirl marks, but very dangerous in the wrong hands.

To see some amazing results of what any normal person can achieve I would take a good look around this website. Sorry it’s American but they are in a league of there own when it comes to car detailing.:smile:
http://autopia.org/forum/index.php?

I would recommend everyone doing this process before applying an expensive wax.

If anyone wants some advice on products or machines just drop me a pm. I have lots of information, links, hints and tips.

Simon
14-12-2005, 06:03 PM
Girlfriend's car
15months old, some very light swirl marks, not able to pick them up with the camera.
Process
Zymol Clear
Clayed
Megs #80 Speed glaze, with pc and sfx polishing pad
Zymol Hd cleansed
Zymol Vintage
End result swirl free:grin: :grin:

Tyres, windows and plastics still had to be done wanted to get some pics before it was dark.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/Picture134.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/Picture130.jpg

No swirl marks:thumbsup:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/Picture138.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/Picture135.jpg

As you can see (Lots, imagine how darker colours look):thumbsdow

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/Picture143.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Belli2120/Picture142.jpg


My van
4 years old, covered in swirl marks.
Process
Zymol Clear
Clayed
Hd cleansed x2
Zymol Vintage x2 (24 hours apart)
End result still covered in swirl marks.:shocked:


Used artificial light to show the swirls at this time of year. In the spring or summer it would be very easy to see them in the natural light and you can imagine how easy on a dark coloured car, compared to my van.

As you can see as good as Zymol is, if you want the best results it's about preparing the paint before the treatment.

Please contact me for advice on where to get the products and any more information.

ric355
14-12-2005, 07:09 PM
I bought a PC from Autopia a while back. Have used it on the 355; they are indeed very safe to use and results are good.

They're called a PC on Autopia because of the manufacturer that makes them - Porter Cable. If you buy a PC it needs to run off 110v because they don't export the product to the UK and hence there isn't a 240v version. This is very easy to do and costs about 40 to buy a yellow transformer and cables.

Other random orbitals exist but none have the large orbit that this one has, which is why it is preferred.

Pic attached. I have a few different pads to go with it - all in the kit I bought, and I've used Meguiars compounds which work well but I've not tried any others. Obviously it isn't the sort of thing you do all the time.

Simon
14-12-2005, 10:15 PM
Some links for the 110 transfer box and bits

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=73851&ts=65002
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=3PMJ3YHYKXNCDCJO2C3CIIQ?id=1669 1&slotName=null&homeRef=&ts=65008&destination=../cat/pro.jsp%3Fid%3D16691%26slotName%3Dnull%26homeRef%3 D
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101987&ts=65107&id=19947

As Ric355 has said "Obviously it isn't the sort of thing you do all the time."
And depending how your car is looked after and how often it is used. It should need doing very little. Anywhere from once a year to once every 10 years.

I use Megs and Poorboys SSR range.

ric355
14-12-2005, 11:56 PM
Some links for the 110 transfer box and bits

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=73851&ts=65002
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=3PMJ3YHYKXNCDCJO2C3CIIQ?id=1669 1&slotName=null&homeRef=&ts=65008&destination=../cat/pro.jsp%3Fid%3D16691%26slotName%3Dnull%26homeRef%3 D
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101987&ts=65107&id=19947

As Ric355 has said "Obviously it isn't the sort of thing you do all the time."
And depending how your car is looked after and how often it is used. It should need doing very little. Anywhere from once a year to once every 10 years.

I use Megs and Poorboys SSR range.

Exactly the same links I used to get my 110v stuff !

Only other thing I learn't that I didn't already say is to stick to the least abrasive compound that will do the job, for obvious reasons.

Are the poorboys compounds self diminishing like the meguiars ones are?

WillW
20-12-2005, 05:25 PM
Just saw this, I wouldn't expect much from this (but price is not bad) but anybody used this or have experience?

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=10001&productId=189810&categoryId=31443&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=31443&crumb=33958-33974-31443&varient=&CarSelectorCatalogId=

ric355
20-12-2005, 06:40 PM
Just saw this, I wouldn't expect much from this (but price is not bad) but anybody used this or have experience?

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=10001&productId=189810&categoryId=31443&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=31443&crumb=33958-33974-31443&varient=&CarSelectorCatalogId=

I have no experience with it but I suspect it will be poo. I have seen other people ask about these on autopia and they are always told by more experienced detailers not to bother. However, that could just be a bandwagon/snobbery thing.

Dave Z
21-12-2005, 07:21 AM
I have no experience with it but I suspect it will be poo. I have seen other people ask about these on autopia and they are always told by more experienced detailers not to bother. However, that could just be a bandwagon/snobbery thing.

I tried one of these a few years back and you're right , it was poooooooh:thumbsdow

Hud
21-12-2005, 09:28 AM
I tried one of these a few years back and you're right , it was poooooooh:thumbsdow

I used one on an old M3 - did more damage than good.

WillW
21-12-2005, 12:07 PM
I used one on an old M3 - did more damage than good.

Good to know. You can reraly put cheap and good to the same sentence :grin:

glyn o'donnell
21-12-2005, 09:39 PM
absolute poo!!! try placing machine polisher into ebay and there is a guy in driffield selling a 6 speed example which should be arrinving with me in the next few days its good value and looks ok, i will let you know

WillW
21-12-2005, 11:31 PM
absolute poo!!! try placing machine polisher into ebay and there is a guy in driffield selling a 6 speed example which should be arrinving with me in the next few days its good value and looks ok, i will let you know

That looks like rotary orbital, not random? Did you ment this product:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRADE-POLISHER-SANDER-soft-start-6-speed-FREE-KIT_W0QQitemZ8022892882QQcategoryZ30923QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

glyn o'donnell
22-12-2005, 10:48 AM
Yes that is correct it is a rotary which is the best possible way of removing scratches and swirls from paint, but beware these are very dangerous in the wrong hands which is why i chose this one, i have many years experience with them but still prefer one like this which has a slow start up and 6 variable speeds, it has arrived this morning and have tried it on the front wing of a car and it is spot on, especially for the money.

steve f
22-12-2005, 10:55 AM
no swirl marks on my car

WillW
22-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Yes that is correct it is a rotary which is the best possible way of removing scratches and swirls from paint, but beware these are very dangerous in the wrong hands which is why i chose this one, i have many years experience with them but still prefer one like this which has a slow start up and 6 variable speeds, it has arrived this morning and have tried it on the front wing of a car and it is spot on, especially for the money.

I have used rotary years ago with the help of very professional car painter, he said that the most important is to have it on move all the time and remember to use very slow speed to avoid heat. And also to be careful in "corners" as you can easily remove all the paint. And I have to say I got very good result! :thumbsup: :laugh:

steve f
22-12-2005, 10:59 AM
A little tip from someone who has used a buffer on a car for over 20 years always keep the mop head wet its not nice to spit on peoples cars but when buffing its a must do thing and never go over the wing top edges as you will buff the paint through to the primer best idea is practice on a few old cars

WillW
22-12-2005, 11:08 AM
A little tip from someone who has used a buffer on a car for over 20 years always keep the mop head wet its not nice to spit on peoples cars but when buffing its a must do thing and never go over the wing top edges as you will buff the paint through to the primer best idea is practice on a few old cars

Spot on! :thumbsup:

hedge
22-12-2005, 11:12 AM
buff the paint through to the primer

I am so never trying this

Terry
26-02-2007, 11:59 AM
I bought a PC from Autopia a while back. Have used it on the 355; they are indeed very safe to use and results are good.

They're called a PC on Autopia because of the manufacturer that makes them - Porter Cable. If you buy a PC it needs to run off 110v because they don't export the product to the UK and hence there isn't a 240v version. This is very easy to do and costs about 40 to buy a yellow transformer and cables.

Other random orbitals exist but none have the large orbit that this one has, which is why it is preferred.

Pic attached. I have a few different pads to go with it - all in the kit I bought, and I've used Meguiars compounds which work well but I've not tried any others. Obviously it isn't the sort of thing you do all the time.

Ric
Is this still the kit to use or is there something else/better now?
Do you have a link to where I can get one?
Cheers.

Terry
28-02-2007, 10:22 PM
Any comments on this deal:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120089033735&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RUPX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=120079606055&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=UpSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

and this product:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONUS-SWIRLBUSTER-POLISH-16oz-475ml-FREE-APPLICATOR_W0QQitemZ120083762213QQihZ002QQcategory Z72201QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks

Dave Z
28-02-2007, 11:17 PM
The porter cable's a good tool to get into machine polishing your car , its basically idiot proof as it doesn't spin on a fixed axis so it doesn't generate the heat to burn through your paint. I bought one to teach Alex with:thumbsup:
Ideal for learning the technique needed to move up to an orbital , a little slow for hardcore correction work , but fantastic for finishing.

The ebay deal looks good enough to me , I think i paid slightly more than that for mine ,but bare in mind you will need a transformer and extension which can work out quiet expensive for a decent one.

Not to sure about the sonus pads and compounds though , we use menzerna compounds with meguiars pads
Hope that helps:thumbsup:
Dave

Terry
28-02-2007, 11:31 PM
The porter cable's a good tool to get into machine polishing your car , its basically idiot proof as it doesn't spin on a fixed axis so it doesn't generate the heat to burn through your paint. I bought one to teach Alex with:thumbsup:
Ideal for learning the technique needed to move up to an orbital , a little slow for hardcore correction work , but fantastic for finishing.

The ebay deal looks good enough to me , I think i paid slightly more than that for mine ,but bare in mind you will need a transformer and extension which can work out quiet expensive for a decent one.

Not to sure about the sonus pads and compounds though , we use menzerna compounds with meguiars pads
Hope that helps:thumbsup:
Dave

Thanks for the info Dave.:thumbsup:

I have a 1000W transformer/voltage regulator which should do the job.

Will have to get set up with the equipment then of course learn how to use it.:grin:

Cheers

Dave Z
01-03-2007, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the info Dave.:thumbsup:

I have a 1000W transformer/voltage regulator which should do the job.

Will have to get set up with the equipment then of course learn how to use it.:grin:

Cheers

Just give me a bell when you're ready and i'll run through it with you mate:thumbsup:
07970 713062

Fraccie
01-03-2007, 04:18 PM
Terry, I have a steyr buffer,polishing pad,various compounds and a couple of sponges, your more than welcome to borrow it if you want.

Terry
01-03-2007, 06:19 PM
Just give me a bell when you're ready and i'll run through it with you mate:thumbsup:
07970 713062

Thanks. That's great Dave, will do.:thumbsup:

Terry
01-03-2007, 06:46 PM
Terry, I have a steyr buffer,polishing pad,various compounds and a couple of sponges, your more than welcome to borrow it if you want.

Many thanks for the kind offer Ade, much appreciated.:thumbsup:

I think though I will get myself set up with the gear.

Thanks again.

Terry
01-03-2007, 07:15 PM
Not to sure about the sonus pads and compounds though , we use menzerna compounds with meguiars pads
Hope that helps:thumbsup:
Dave

Dave

Is there one place I can buy the menzerna compound and Meguiars pads? What grade menzerna compounds and which pads should I be asking for?

Many thanks.

WillW
01-03-2007, 08:00 PM
Terry,
I have PC and it's really good, I can strongly recommend that! DAS pads are good and was happy with Sonus compounds as well. Check www.autopia.org , there is loads of info about these. :thumbsup:

Terry
01-03-2007, 09:16 PM
Terry,
I have PC and it's really good, I can strongly recommend that! DAS pads are good and was happy with Sonus compounds as well. Check www.autopia.org , there is loads of info about these. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the recommendation Ville. :thumbsup: I am all set to buy one but just a little unsure about the required pads and compounds.

WillW
01-03-2007, 09:41 PM
Thanks for the recommendation Ville. :thumbsup: I am all set to buy one but just a little unsure about the required pads and compounds.

:thumbsup: Those DAS pads were recommended to me and they are great. (you most likely need only less agressive ones so buy white and blue one). Also (dunno if I remember names correctly) Sonus SFX2 and SFX3 compounds should be good if you don't have very bad swirl marks. All those products (inc Mequairs etc) are discussed in Autopia, there is loads of feedback people have given to these products. :thumbsup:

Terry
01-03-2007, 10:46 PM
:thumbsup: Those DAS pads were recommended to me and they are great. (you most likely need only less agressive ones so buy white and blue one). Also (dunno if I remember names correctly) Sonus SFX2 and SFX3 compounds should be good if you don't have very bad swirl marks. All those products (inc Mequairs etc) are discussed in Autopia, there is loads of feedback people have given to these products. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the tips.:thumbsup:
I have been looking on Autopia and like you say a lot of info.

Dave Z
01-03-2007, 10:49 PM
Dave

Is there one place I can buy the menzerna compound and Meguiars pads? What grade menzerna compounds and which pads should I be asking for?

Many thanks.


Terry ,
you'll need menzerna intensive polish and Final polish, also a meguiars red pad (hard) yellow (medium) and beige (soft)
Get them from Johnny at clean and shiny 07795 395999
Tell him I sent you:thumbsup:
Then give me a bell when you've got them and I'll go through it with you:thumbsup:

Terry
01-03-2007, 11:13 PM
Terry ,
you'll need menzerna intensive polish and Final polish, also a meguiars red pad (hard) yellow (medium) and beige (soft)
Get them from Johnny at clean and shiny 07795 395999
Tell him I sent you:thumbsup:
Then give me a bell when you've got them and I'll go through it with you:thumbsup:

Great, thanks Dave.:thumbsup:

MalcH
02-03-2007, 10:15 AM
Dave

Is there one place I can buy the menzerna compound and Meguiars pads? What grade menzerna compounds and which pads should I be asking for?

Many thanks.
Terry you look after that 355, hoping it will be mine one day :grin: :wink3:

Terry
02-03-2007, 01:18 PM
Terry you look after that 355, hoping it will be mine one day :grin: :wink3:

Hey Malc I must get it nice and shiny first. :grin:

MalcH
05-03-2007, 01:44 PM
Hey Malc I must get it nice and shiny first. :grin:

Yep, but it loooked shiney anyway!!!

Can't wait to see it again Terry :thumbsup:

Juke 360
24-03-2007, 05:59 PM
Reading through this thread I decided to purchase a Porter Cable and call Dave for his advice. Being to scared to do my ferrari I practiced on the wife's ML 320. I washed the car with car bath, clay bar, then used the polishes and the polishing heads recommended by Dave. If any of you have not chatted to him he is a really great guy who spent ages explaining to me how to use them. Anyway, after a lot of hard work (I am knackered!!) here is the before and after...

rizlaneil1000
24-03-2007, 07:38 PM
ive just done a 5 hour stint in the garage polishing..by hand..

after someone mentioned it on here i thought id give auto glym paint restorer a go....

and to be fair its done alright!!

a little less violent than t-cut but i think now the car definately looks better..although it'll be in bright sunlight when the results can be truly seen...

bloomin hard work though isnt it!!!

Terry
24-03-2007, 08:07 PM
Nice work Juke.

I was doing the same as you today. I also got everything Dave recommended and had a chat with him last night, a really helpful person and full credit to him for sharing his knowledge.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I have only done the first step so far on the front of the car. It is amazing how the marks disappear. It looks great now with only one out of four steps done. Then another two with HD and wax.

As you say, it's very tiring. I think it will take me some time but will no doubt be worth it in the end.

If anyone doesn't want the bother or doesn't have the time, get Dave to do it for you. HD and wax only may be good but you will be amazed how much better it will look (as many others have said) with the paint correction process accomplished.:thumbsup:

Dave Z
24-03-2007, 11:23 PM
Glad to help guys:thumbsup:
Maybe I should open a detailing School:grin:

A308 MAN
25-03-2007, 11:50 AM
During the visit to Bentley Motors last week, I notice the guys polishing the bodywork were also using buffing machines.
The "squezy" bottles they use had masking tape labels with "mixture 3:1" and "mixture 4:1" duly scribed by hand.
I asked what the mixture was, and the info was really quite surprising ... the basic product was Meguiars with another 2 or 3 products added and mixed.

As I am probably the poorest person on here, recipes are available at 10 a shot !

If it's good enough for Bentley, it's good enough for Gina !

:cheers: d

sweeni
27-03-2007, 12:50 PM
As I am probably the poorest person on here,
d

Bo77ocx - You dont need much dosh living as a tax exile :grin:

Terry
30-03-2007, 08:29 PM
Well it's starting to shine now but not a quick job. I have been at it every night for over a week but getting there.

I received the PC, meg pads, menzerna intensive polish and final polish some great help from Dave (many thanks again) and set to it.

I have had 4 sessions with the pads/polish then two HD and just put a light coat of Rouge. Letting that cure for a while then will apply a coat of Ital tomorrow. Still a few marks here and there but I didn't want to go too far with the pads just in case of you know what happening.

Looking forward to seeing it outside in the sunshine to see the whole effect but very happy so far.

andy456M
31-03-2007, 09:00 PM
These results are amazing. I am tempted to get a PC myself. Can you not get this "PC" from the UK on 240V, if not is there an equivalent?

Someone inexperienced has had a go at my BMW in the past, I suspect with an orbital one, as you can see a slight 'hologram' effect on most of the panels.

If I get a PC the first job would be to do the BMW - it would be good practice and cheaper to fix if I bu88er it up. In fact I wouldn't bother fixing it.

TBH though the 456 isn't that bad as far as swirls are concerned - perhaps someone has done a paint correction on it in the past. I would be nice to get some of the scratches out though, like the one I put in this morning whilst trying to take my mower apart.:cry3: Also I think you get away with more with metallic paint.

Terry
01-04-2007, 08:38 AM
I believe the PC is available only from the US @ 110V. It took three weeks to receive mine from the guy on ebay due to a supplier delay in the US.

Many people talk about the PC as the one for amateurs to use. Because of its random circular orbit, you are less likely to cause damage.

Once you know the process it is a case of practice but I found you settle into it quite quickly. My fear was going over the paint too much. Apparently if you thin the clear coat too much, you loose the depth of shine so you do not have to go through the clear coat to cause problems.

I stopped short of removing all the marks for fear of going too far. Perhaps a paint thickness meter would help with that but I hear they are expensive.

It is also a messy job so well worth masking off as much as you can to avoid a big clean up later.

A methodical time consuming exercise and I would suggest not one to rush.

Fraccie
01-04-2007, 05:02 PM
Terry, did you get her MoT`ed?

Juke 360
01-04-2007, 05:35 PM
I can too say that this is not easy work. Took me 3 days after the wonderful advice Dave Z gave me. Not perfect but so much better. The colour is richer. I used the same as above but went over with swissol clay bar before IP and FF then used the swissol pre wax and scuderia wax ( 3 coats!!!)

Terry
01-04-2007, 05:45 PM
Terry, did you get her MoT`ed?

Hi Ade, it's this Wednesday at 08:30, then tax.:thumbsup:

Looking forward to a drive after 16 months in the garage in bits.

Fraccie
01-04-2007, 05:46 PM
Hi Ade, it's this Wednesday at 08:30, then tax.:thumbsup:

Looking forward to a drive after 16 months in the garage in bits.

Well best of luck Terry, what do you think...:thumbsdow :thumbsup: ?

Let us know Terry....:thumbsup:

Terry
01-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Well best of luck Terry, what do you think...:thumbsdow :thumbsup: ?

Let us know Terry....:thumbsup:

I am hoping the same guy will be there who failed it when I first bought the car.

Hopefully he will see the difference.:)

Terry
01-04-2007, 05:53 PM
Car looks good Juke. :thumbsup:

Even though it's hard work, I think it's satisfying to see the end result.

MalcH
01-04-2007, 10:10 PM
Terry car is looking great. Good luck with the MOT though you won't need it:thumbsup:

Juke 360
02-04-2007, 08:10 PM
Absolutely agree Terry and thank you. In my line of work (selling J2EE and .net consulting) I rarely get to see the final product. It is great to be able to work really hard and be able to stand back and admire!!!

Terry
07-04-2007, 09:47 AM
Well best of luck Terry, what do you think...:thumbsdow :thumbsup: ?

Let us know Terry....:thumbsup:

MOT done on Wednesday and now a tax disc is on the windscreen, very pleased.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: