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View Full Version : To Permangard or not to Permagard



355fiorano
06-11-2005, 02:49 AM
Would you use Pwrmagard on your car. Apparently it gives a permanent concourse look and the car needs no polishing, just wash with water and presto. Needs a top up every year. Initial application is about 150 and 60 pa for the re-apply. Currently this is a product that is used on boats and airplanes. I spoke to the guys and they also said that the Norwegian airforce has treated their helicopters with it. They use to repaint them every year and now they havent doen it for 4 years or so.

What do you think? :thumbsup: :thumbsdow

www.permagard.info

tonyh
06-11-2005, 09:54 AM
I voted yes, subject to scrutiny. The editor of EVO has had his 550 done by these people. I'll be watching his reports with interest.

355fiorano
06-11-2005, 02:40 PM
Interesting but your vote was not showing. I put a vote for me to see if its working and it is.

Anyone esle with an opinion on this? I'd really like some help to judge a concesus. I kinda want to do it but I wanted some sort of sense of what others think. If vote is negative I'll probably change my mind.

Angelis
06-11-2005, 02:56 PM
I voted no. But I'm a Zymol freak. :wink3:

I've heard about it coming off after a few months. But I can't confirm that is actually true.

Would be interesting to see a two car comparison with Permaguard and Zymol. Preferably two mettalic black cars.

Jules
06-11-2005, 03:10 PM
I've got some form of guard on my 360 front bumper - haven't a clue what it is, have been looking through the history file to find the purchase - but nothing, I will say though it makes a difference. I've had the car for about a month, probably driven the car no more than 500 miles, but the guard has already prevented a number of stone chips.

I remember coming back from the European trip with my 348 looking like it had been shotblasted, thinking holy cow - that'll cost 300 :cry:

So any guard has to be a good thing, If I do need to replace this 'clingfilm' type solution, I would definately take a look at other products :thumbsup:

Jules
06-11-2005, 03:13 PM
Just looked at the website - realise its not a 'film' protection solution, but interested anyway!

Dave Z
06-11-2005, 03:17 PM
As the new "car care" expert my answer to this is based purely on my experiences of these types of protective coatings,
Some of you may remember a similar thread on F-Chat which I gave the same advice.
These coatings have been available now for a few years under different brand names , ie supaguard , auto glym life shine, Diamond brite etc.
They are basically polymer/chemical based sealents which will protect the car from general road grime , salt and tar, so they do work , you can't knock them for that.
In my experience I have found that they dont offer any protection from bird droppings, despite manufacturers claims.
My only concern is how they perform in the long term, I normally come across a couple of cars per year where i have to remove these type of coatings , mainly due to them Scratching / Hazing and or oxidisation of the paint underneath, the biggest problem being that you cant get to the paint to polish it should it fade or oxidise.
As far as price is concerned , if that is your budget and you want a low maintenance finish that in the short term is better than a wax/polish you 'd get from halfords, then go for it, but if your keeping your car long term , looking for full protection from everything that your car will come into contact with and a finish that is a bit special then you may be better off looking elsewhere.
So waying the two sides to the arguement up ,and going from my experiences as a car valeter/detailer,I personally would have to say no:thumbsdow

355fiorano
06-11-2005, 03:20 PM
I've got some form of guard on my 360 front bumper - haven't a clue what it is, have been looking through the history file to find the purchase - but nothing, I will say though it makes a difference. I've had the car for about a month, probably driven the car no more than 500 miles, but the guard has already prevented a number of stone chips.

I remember coming back from the European trip with my 348 looking like it had been shotblasted, thinking holy cow - that'll cost 300 :cry:

So any guard has to be a good thing, If I do need to replace this 'clingfilm' type solution, I would definately take a look at other products :thumbsup:

Julian I did have the armourfend for protection before. I had mixed results in that in the Elise it is fantastic. It's been on it for 3 years no problems. On the 355 ist started to come off and it started to look tatty. Also with the speeds you reach on the 355, you get the stones rip whole lines of 2+inches into the plastic so it does again start to not look too good. Considering that it costs 750 for the Armourfend kit, it is probably better to jsut have a respray avery year or so.

As you say however in your last post this is not anything to do with protection. It is just a polish type of thing that keeps the car shining with jsut washing it with water.

355fiorano
06-11-2005, 03:23 PM
As the new "car care" expert my answer to this is based purely on my experiences of these types of protective coatings,
Some of you may remember a similar thread on F-Chat which I gave the same advice.
These coatings have been available now for a few years under different brand names , ie supaguard , auto glym life shine, Diamond brite etc.
They are basically polymer/chemical based sealents which will protect the car from general road grime , salt and tar, so they do work , you can't knock them for that.
In my experience I have found that they dont offer any protection from bird droppings, despite manufacturers claims.
My only concern is how they perform in the long term, I normally come across a couple of cars per year where i have to remove these type of coatings , mainly due to them Scratching / Hazing and or oxidisation of the paint underneath, the biggest problem being that you cant get to the paint to polish it should it fade or oxidise.
As far as price is concerned , if that is your budget and you want a low maintenance finish that in the short term is better than a wax/polish you 'd get from halfords, then go for it, but if your keeping your car long term , looking for full protection from everything that your car will come into contact with and a finish that is a bit special then you may be better off looking elsewhere.
So waying the two sides to the arguement up ,and going from my experiences as a car valeter/detailer,I personally would have to say no:thumbsdow

Dave thanks for your input. This is VERY helpful. Can I also ask what is involved in taking these off so that you can get to the paint again. So if I did do it and didn't like it, how could I get rid of it.

Dave Z
06-11-2005, 03:26 PM
Dave thanks for your input. This is VERY helpful. Can I also ask what is involved in taking these off so that you can get to the paint again. So if I did do it and didn't like it, how could I get rid of it.

The only way to get it off is with a machine poliosher (mop) some G3 and about 5 - 7 hours hard labour, feel free to borrow mine :smiley:

355fiorano
06-11-2005, 03:34 PM
The only way to get it off is with a machine poliosher (mop) some G3 and about 5 - 7 hours hard labour, feel free to borrow mine :smiley:

Mate the only reason I want to do this Permagard thing is to I don't have to do all this polishing stuff. 7hrs to take it off if I didn't like it really puts me off. Would it have any bad after effects having to remove it using the machine polisher? Any idea of cost if I needed to ask someone to remove it and zymol the car after ?

stevew
06-11-2005, 04:01 PM
Never had any experience with permaguard but my BMW had been supaguarded by the previous owner.Dave's right it doesn't protect against bird droppings,they ate into the supaguard on my car.Took it all off and Zymoled it.Looks 10 times better and is miles easier to clean now.

The only reason dealers offer this to punters is because the profit margins are that good.

Spend your money on some good polish,or get someone to polish it for you if you haven't got the time or inclination.

Dave Z
06-11-2005, 05:16 PM
Mate the only reason I want to do this Permagard thing is to I don't have to do all this polishing stuff. 7hrs to take it off if I didn't like it really puts me off. Would it have any bad after effects having to remove it using the machine polisher? Any idea of cost if I needed to ask someone to remove it and zymol the car after ?

Machine polishing it off wont effect the paint , as long as its done right , up my end you pay about 60 to get your car mopped , so maybe a bit more in London.
If you do decide to get it done and dont like it , if your gonna get it Zymoled afterwards just give me a shout and I'll do it for you

ric355
06-11-2005, 08:30 PM
I wouldn't do it due to the fact that it is difficult to remove. Plus I'm one of those who actually enjoys polishing the car, so it's a no brainer for me in that sense.

Ever tried Zaino? It's a synthetic polish (so more of a sealant if you like), but it can be removed as easily as any wax can. Its advantage is it has long lasting abilities and can be layered. Disadvantage is that it takes some effort to apply. However once done it will easily last 6 months and the results are excellent.

I've used Zaino myself although at the moment I'm using Zymol (just because I like to try alternatives). Zaino doesn't quite give the same 'wet look' as Zymol - it's more a 'glass' look, but very impressive and the car washes very easily thereafter. I'd say this could be the closest non-permanent thing to permaguard.

Ric.

EK3R
06-11-2005, 10:11 PM
Someone from Pistonheads had it applied to his car - write up here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=219517&f=136&h=0

ric355
07-11-2005, 08:00 PM
Someone from Pistonheads had it applied to his car - write up here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=219517&f=136&h=0

Interesting - I have to admit I would be tempted to get just my alloys done, if brake dust is easier to clean off. Maybe windscreen too.

355fiorano
07-11-2005, 11:52 PM
Thanks for the input guys. This is very helpful. Until I read the pistonheads link I had decided not to do it. Then I read it and the thought was back again! Indecisions, indecisions ....:confused:

Jules
08-11-2005, 12:27 AM
Philip

slightly off the subject, but I have discovered that I do have armourfend on my front bumper - I'll post my findings over the next few months

355fiorano
08-11-2005, 02:35 PM
Philip

slightly off the subject, but I have discovered that I do have armourfend on my front bumper - I'll post my findings over the next few months

Julian, it would be good to hear as I have had mixed results from armourfend personally.

Cheers
Philip

Ravi 355
09-11-2005, 01:39 PM
I'm lazy and don't make any bones about so have Dave paying me regular visits! But if I couldn't afford Dave I'd still make the effort to polish it as by the sounds of it its much better for the paint work.

basher550
30-01-2006, 04:31 PM
Mine was permaguarded last June (before I bought it in Dec) - dont know the diffences to a regular black metallic one but have to say after washing it is sparkly and looks great......

Will let you know how it develops over time or if i get to compare it to a non permaguareded metallic black one

subirg
30-01-2006, 05:26 PM
Julian, it would be good to hear as I have had mixed results from armourfend personally.

Cheers
Philip

I have armourfend on my front bumper only - reason being that i got fed up with having the bloody thing resprayed every year. Had it done about 3 years ago and its behaving perfectly - no scratches/marks that are noticeable and certainly much better than having thousands of white stone chips on the car...! I would definitely recommend it as no amount of zymol/permagard will do what armourfend can do.

WillW
30-01-2006, 06:39 PM
I would reckon to read ww.autopia.org - forum, very good information about painwork maintenance and not too much hype about certain products... :wink3: :wink3: I.e. carnauba wax will not last as long as synthetic sealants but gives very deep colour, but you can top synthetic sealant with carnauba wax to get best from both worlds.
As for Permaguard, cost of it (& Supaguard etc) 99% is labour, basicly preparing surface.

Jas
08-06-2006, 03:23 PM
Anyone know if A-Glaze is the same as Permaguard? I was quoted 300 for A-Glaze, and told it's a polymer sealant.

phil612
20-06-2006, 08:37 AM
I had my 612 done last year and I just wash it with a tiny bit of very mild shampoo (just to produce a lather), water still sheets off the body and glass (I had the glass done too). Before it was done I could see spider-web scratches, and so far since it was done I've got none...

(No affiliation, just a happy customer).

Jonny5
26-06-2006, 01:18 PM
My new car is booked in for next Saturday