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View Full Version : Membership fee - How much?



Angelis
10-11-2005, 05:20 PM
Just a quick poll to see what membership amount everyone is willing to pay.

Remember, all money received goes to running costs of the club.


PS. Additional donations kindly accepted and your name and amount gifted will be posted as a thank you.

Poll closes after 7 days.

400SPYDER
10-11-2005, 05:23 PM
Just a quick poll to see what membership amount everyone is willing to pay.

Remember, all money received goes to running costs of the club.


PS. Additional donations kindly accepted and your name and amount gifted will be posted as a thank you.

Sy where's the poll man ? :D:D:D It appeared after this post - I swear :p:p:p

Angelis
10-11-2005, 05:24 PM
Sy where's the poll man ? :D:D:D

:laughinat

ferrari-spider
10-11-2005, 05:25 PM
Happy with anything up to 20.

Angelis
10-11-2005, 05:26 PM
I limited it to £30 as i know the northerners won't spend more than that on anything.

<Looks to Hazy>

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hud
10-11-2005, 05:28 PM
discount for three user loggins?:thumbsup:

Hud
10-11-2005, 05:29 PM
I limited it to 30 as i know the northerners won't spend more than that on anything.

<Looks to Hazy>

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

said the bloke who is too poor to come up north at the weekend:tongue:

Ravi 355
10-11-2005, 05:31 PM
I think 30 is a fair price, but money should get us car / tax disc holder

tabletcounter
10-11-2005, 05:37 PM
I think 30 is a fair price, but money should get us car / tax disc holder

Anything up to about 20 is OK above that and I want stickers, t-shirts, calenders, free beer!!

ric355
10-11-2005, 05:39 PM
Any reason why it is 12 and not 15 in the poll?

400SPYDER
10-11-2005, 05:41 PM
Any reason why it is 12 and not 15 in the poll?

For the northerners who will ask to pay be instalments - its easier 1 per month !!!!!!!!!!!

Ravi 355
10-11-2005, 05:44 PM
Anything up to about 20 is OK above that and I want stickers, t-shirts, calenders, free beer!!

I think and extra 10 is worth a tseteful tax disc holder, used to have one on my 911 that a porsche forum did. looked really good.

Nicola
10-11-2005, 05:46 PM
If we have more advertisers, can the subscription be low?

I don't want to pay more than I was at the other place.

Angelis
10-11-2005, 05:46 PM
Any reason why it is &#163;12 and not &#163;15 in the poll?

&#163;1 per month.


For the northerners who will ask to pay be instalments - its easier &#163;1 per month !!!!!!!!!!!

That too. :D



If we have more advertisers, can the subscription be low?

Yes. But we won't really know until after the first year.

Hazy
10-11-2005, 05:49 PM
Countrary to popular misconceptions I am happy to pay &#163;30 coz I get &#163;30 quids worth of enjoyment laughing at you lot.






















But I fully expect my fuel to be paid for on the next excursion to the Smoke for the next Poseur Run :D:D:D

Angelis
10-11-2005, 05:49 PM
said the bloke who is too poor to come up north at the weekend:tongue:

that's a slanderous comment and totally unwarranted.

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

My exact comment was...

"What me... drive up North with a bunch of pansy drivers with power steering and traction control!!! You aving a larf!!!!"

steve f
10-11-2005, 05:50 PM
Guess who voted FREE :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Hazy
10-11-2005, 05:59 PM
Sy can we please have one of them polls where we can see who voted, this will encourage higher amounts so not to be seen as a tight wad, and we can also identify those who would probably not buy a drink on one of our nights out :D:D:D

Aztec
10-11-2005, 06:00 PM
Northerner so upto 20

ferrari-spider
10-11-2005, 06:04 PM
Ok, ok 20.04p and not a penny more.

spidermanUK
10-11-2005, 06:34 PM
I'm happy that there should be a "subscribed user" option, but it should be exactly that, an option! I'm assuming that there will be extra facilities available to those subscribing e.g. avatar, signature, larger pm facility etc.
But it would be a real shame to lose or turn away users who were unable to subscribe, but still wanted to contribute.

I feel the majority of us want to subscribe to simply support the forum, not to gain any extra facilities, and I personally would like to see that the early users should keep some of these facilities, even if they don't subscribe, at least for a while, to thank them for helping us get this off the ground.

Maybe we should give everyone who is registered by the end of this month all the facilities free until Feb 06, in line with sponsors, and then let them choose to subscribe at that point?

Of course, those of us who wish to subscribe immediately, to ensure at least some revenue is generated short-term, may do so.:happy2:

A308 MAN
10-11-2005, 06:55 PM
As of now, there seems to be an average of 400 available.
How much do you chaps feel you need to take us thro' to say next February/March ?
cheers, d

Angelis
10-11-2005, 06:58 PM
I'm happy that there should be a "subscribed user" option, but it should be exactly that, an option! I'm assuming that there will be extra facilities available to those subscribing e.g. avatar, signature, larger pm facility etc.
But it would be a real shame to lose or turn away users who were unable to subscribe, but still wanted to contribute.

Final decsision has not been made yet as to what benefits each membership should have. However, I'd probably guess it would be similar as those of fchat. We have to remain open in order to grow.

The main benefit of being a paid member is the ability to vote in AGM's and partake in other decisions that may affect the running of the club. Because by paying towards membership, you become an equal part owner.

spidermanUK
10-11-2005, 06:59 PM
Strikes me as a bit ironic that when asking how much people should pay to support a forum based around the "prancing horse", no one thinks the price should be a "pony"!:grin:


That's 25 quid to you Northerners!:sunny: :smileywav :smileywav :smileywav :argh:

spidermanUK
10-11-2005, 07:01 PM
Final decsision has not been made yet as to what benefits each membership should have. However, I'd probably guess it would be similar as those of fchat. We have to remain open in order to grow.

The main benefit of being a paid member is the ability to vote in AGM's and partake in other decisions that may affect the running of the club. Because by paying towards membership, you become an equal part owner.
Just a bit of housekeeping here, Sy, but please consider the status of a banned subscribed member with regard to ownership, could be a legal minefield if it's not considered carefully:cry:

Angelis
10-11-2005, 07:03 PM
Just a bit of housekeeping here, Sy, but please consider the status of a banned subscribed member with regard to ownership, could be a legal minefield if it's not considered carefully:cry:

That should be covered in the rules and regulations.

spidermanUK
10-11-2005, 07:06 PM
That should be covered in the rules and regulations.
I knew you'd have it covered matey!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

fan512bbi
10-11-2005, 07:06 PM
It costs me a fortune to join pervy sites so that i can bring you good bikini thread shots :grin: so you should pay me :thumbsup:

F355GTS
10-11-2005, 07:11 PM
I say make it 400 each and keep the rif raf out :D

Angelis
10-11-2005, 07:16 PM
As of now, there seems to be an average of 400 available.
How much do you chaps feel you need to take us thro' to say next February/March ?
cheers, d

I'll know by next wednesday what type of hosting facility we'll need in the medium to long term. Then we'd have to decide on the type of hosting avaialble and the cost per year.

The current hosting cost is 40 per year, but not suitable for what we are doing. Very soon we will run out of database storage space.

a7see
10-11-2005, 07:17 PM
20........... + stickers to promote the site........ :D

steve f
10-11-2005, 07:20 PM
as southerners are used to paying more for drinks houses clothes parking we need a dividing line across the country where membership is say &#163;20 a year above the line and double below the line its the only fair culture'll way as it was not understanding cultures that has caused us all to be here:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Fraccie
10-11-2005, 07:22 PM
For the northerners who will ask to pay be instalments - its easier &#163;1 per month !!!!!!!!!!!


We should get free subscription for being brave enough,or stupid enough,to endure the cold,desolate and dreary Northern wastelands!

F328GTS
10-11-2005, 07:36 PM
Sy, I don't really understand the point of a poll for this.

Surely the membership costs will be determined by the total running costs, minus what sponsors are paying, and the remainder divided by the members.

So it could be that if you get enough sponsors to cover the running costs, then it should be free. If you are 500 short, and 100 people are willing pay then it's a fiver each.

If we vote to pay 20, and everybody pays (currently 182 members) that will be 3640 without even counting the sponsors.

Do you have any longer term projected costs with say 1,000 users?

Cheers,

Nigel.

ferrari-spider
10-11-2005, 07:45 PM
Confused again Nigel:tongue:

F328GTS
10-11-2005, 07:53 PM
Confused again Nigel:tongue:
No mate, just think a poll is a back to front way of doing things. You need to establish projected costs first, then work backwards to calculate membership fees.:idea: If you use a poll you could end up either way short, or with a huge bundle of cash left over.

Angelis
10-11-2005, 08:00 PM
Surely the membership costs will be determined by the total running costs, minus what sponsors are paying, and the remainder divided by the members.

So it could be that if you get enough sponsors to cover the running costs, then it should be free. If you are 500 short, and 100 people are willing pay then it's a fiver each.

If we vote to pay 20, and everybody pays (currently 182 members) that will be 3640 without even counting the sponsors.

Do you have any longer term projected costs with say 1,000 users?


Nigel, the poll is just to see what people are willing to pay for membership. I have'nt started putting together any figures as yet.

However, I am anxious to get the subscription sorted as soon as possible, which then allows subscribers to vote.

I'll have the cashflow done within the next week or so. Not sure if I should post it up though, although i may have to, to justify the membership cost.

Hazy
10-11-2005, 09:29 PM
Nigel, the poll is just to see what people are willing to pay for membership. I have'nt started putting together any figures as yet.

However, I am anxious to get the subscription sorted as soon as possible, which then allows subscribers to vote.

I'll have the cashflow done within the next week or so. Not sure if I should post it up though, although i may have to, to justify the membership cost.

You aint gotta justify nothing dude.

We pay the figure that gets the most votes.Simple. And monies left over at the end of the year can be put towards a pi$$ up or subsidized event or ploughed back into the club. Some of you are missing the point.My understanding is that this club/forum is gonna be OURS not Angelis' even tho' he is the driving force behind it. Lets not complicate things further ay???

Hazy
10-11-2005, 09:35 PM
I'm happy that there should be a "subscribed user" option, but it should be exactly that, an option! I'm assuming that there will be extra facilities available to those subscribing e.g. avatar, signature, larger pm facility etc.
But it would be a real shame to lose or turn away users who were unable to subscribe, but still wanted to contribute.

I feel the majority of us want to subscribe to simply support the forum, not to gain any extra facilities, and I personally would like to see that the early users should keep some of these facilities, even if they don't subscribe, at least for a while, to thank them for helping us get this off the ground.

Maybe we should give everyone who is registered by the end of this month all the facilities free until Feb 06, in line with sponsors, and then let them choose to subscribe at that point?


Of course, those of us who wish to subscribe immediately, to ensure at least some revenue is generated short-term, may do so.:happy2:


Good post Clive, me and you are on the same wave length dude :D:D:D

F328GTS
10-11-2005, 11:21 PM
You aint gotta justify nothing dude.

We pay the figure that gets the most votes.Simple. And monies left over at the end of the year can be put towards a pi$$ up or subsidized event or ploughed back into the club. Some of you are missing the point.My understanding is that this club/forum is gonna be OURS not Angelis' even tho' he is the driving force behind it. Lets not complicate things further ay???
If all extra funds will go to things like subsidising track days etc. and p1ss ups then no problem. My previous post assumed the subs were just to cover running costs of this forum.

Speedy308
10-11-2005, 11:24 PM
You guys let me know, I'll have to send a fancy International Money Order with that squiggly "L' thing in it.......LOL!

And we'll make the logo up, and put it on the Fcars, for meets over here...THAT should be a conversation starter!

Angelis
10-11-2005, 11:41 PM
If all extra funds will go to things like subsidising track days etc. and p1ss ups then no problem. My previous post assumed the subs were just to cover running costs of this forum.

Any money left over will go into the pot.

I suggest it then go to a vote by the subscribed members to decide what to do with it.

Remember, it will be a non-profit making club.

F328GTS
10-11-2005, 11:44 PM
Any money left over will go into the pot.

I suggest it then go to a vote by the subscribed members to decide what to do with it.

Remember, it will be a non-profit making club.
Excellent, thanks for clarifying. :thumbsup:

Angelis
10-11-2005, 11:47 PM
Excellent, thanks for clarifying. :thumbsup:

No problem. Sometimes my fingers type faster than my brain can think (no 348 jokes please), so sometimes not everything I post is clear.

:grin:

ferrari-spider
11-11-2005, 12:27 AM
At the end of the day any cash in the pot will be extremly small fry compared to the FOCs cash pot, that people pay 70-90 for and only for a sticker and magazine:smiley:

burriana
11-11-2005, 12:31 AM
I voted 20 as a middle ground.

I also wonder how the people spending all their time running the site are going to be rewarded. It's allright to say it's a member's club owned by the members for the members, but to do all the work that Sy and the guys are doing, for nothing, just doesn't seem fair.

Also, have a look at the PistonHeads shop for ideas for making more revenue. Baseball caps, tax disc holders, stickers (**** off Hazy before you start! :D )

ferrari-spider
11-11-2005, 12:53 AM
I voted 20 as a middle ground.

I also wonder how the people spending all their time running the site are going to be rewarded. It's allright to say it's a member's club owned by the members for the members, but to do all the work that Sy and the guys are doing, for nothing, just doesn't seem fair. )Thats exatly right dude, but you know like i aid above some pay the FOC so much cash that they have over half a million in the bank, i am sure the anoraks will correct thet figure, and the Top guy on the FOC and come to trhink of it Nob Lay is on a go wage.

GrahamS
11-11-2005, 09:16 AM
At the end of the day any cash in the pot will be extremly small fry compared to the FOCs cash pot, that people pay 70-90 for and only for a sticker and magazine:smiley:
We'll be handing out lollipops as well :)

steve f
11-11-2005, 09:20 AM
We'll be handing out lollipops as well :)
yes to all the SUCKERS that pay:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hazy
11-11-2005, 09:20 AM
No problem. Sometimes my fingers type faster than my brain can think (no 348 jokes please), so sometimes not everything I post is clear.

:grin:


not very fast at typing then dude?? :D:D:D

Hazy
11-11-2005, 09:30 AM
I voted 20 as a middle ground.

I also wonder how the people spending all their time running the site are going to be rewarded. It's allright to say it's a member's club owned by the members for the members, but to do all the work that Sy and the guys are doing, for nothing, just doesn't seem fair.

Also, have a look at the PistonHeads shop for ideas for making more revenue. Baseball caps, tax disc holders, stickers, which are my personal favourite, they give me the horn badly (**** off Hazy before you start! :D )


Would'nt dream of it dude, would'nt dream of it...... :D:D:D

steve f
11-11-2005, 09:36 AM
I voted 20 as a middle ground.

I also wonder how the people spending all their time running the site are going to be rewarded. It's allright to say it's a member's club owned by the members for the members, but to do all the work that Sy and the guys are doing, for nothing, just doesn't seem fair.

Also, have a look at the PistonHeads shop for ideas for making more revenue. Baseball caps, tax disc holders, stickerswhich are my personal favourite, they give me the horn badly(**** off Hazy before you start! :D )
sorry to say this al but baseball caps and stickers well thats a put off would of bought your 348 if it wasent for the stickers on it and the baseball caps on the rear parcel shelf:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

burriana
11-11-2005, 09:56 AM
would of bought your 348 if it wasent for the stickers on it and the baseball caps on the rear parcel shelf:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I have a parcel shelf?

355fiorano
11-11-2005, 10:16 AM
I put in for a tenner.

The logic is that we want to attract as many members as possible and there is a trade off between price and volume of sales. Theory has it that if it was free, everyone that wanted the product would have it and if it was beyond a certain price no-one would. Between those extremes, one has to judge the right mix in order to attract the kind of buyer then want. It is also important to look at what market we are targeting. If this is international, which I think is the case, then we must take into account that the is a stroger currency than most.
I certainly don't think we can charge as low as the other place for 2 reasons. 1) they have more members and their fixed costs per member are now much lower 2) everything is cheaper in the US.

For the current 200 members @ 10 thats 2k p.a. Don't know if that's enough or not but I suspect not for the moment. However at this rate of growth we should be 500 in the not too distant future and that I suspect would be a healthy sum to run this site... and that's only in the first few months of operation !

As for the ownership i suggest a couple of ideas.
If this is to be set up as a limited company then anyone that wants to own part of it can contribute a set amount. For that they will own part of it. You can set up a company with say 2000 shares and sell them at 2 or 5 to the first 200 members. The first 2000 people will then be shareholders and will be allowed to vote. This will help the company get over its initial overhead costs with servers and equipment etc. In terms of shareholders getting banned we can put wording in that if one is banned they forfeit their share and it goes back into the pool. Then it can be sold to someone else and if there is more demand, after all the 2000 are finished then we can even set up an auction .... but I think I'm getting ahead of myself !!!
The other way is maybe to have a 2 tier susbcription, a voting subscription and a non voting one. Simple !

Anyway that's just some of my thoughts ...

:thinking2 :

Better get on with some real work though. Don't want to be here till midnight again :mallet:

tonyh
11-11-2005, 10:23 AM
I put in for a tenner.

The logic is that we want to attract as many members as possible and there is a trade off between price and volume of sales. Theory has it that if it was free, everyone that wanted the product would have it and if it was beyond a certain price no-one would. Between those extremes, one has to judge the right mix in order to attract the kind of buyer then want. It is also important to look at what market we are targeting. If this is international, which I think is the case, then we must take into account that the &#163; is a stroger currency than most.
I certainly don't think we can charge as low as the other place for 2 reasons. 1) they have more members and their fixed costs per member are now much lower 2) everything is cheaper in the US.

For the current 200 members @ &#163;10 thats &#163;2k p.a. Don't know if that's enough or not but I suspect not for the moment. However at this rate of growth we should be 500 in the not too distant future and that I suspect would be a healthy sum to run this site... and that's only in the first few months of operation !

As for the ownership i suggest a couple of ideas.
If this is to be set up as a limited company then anyone that wants to own part of it can contribute a set amount. For that they will own part of it. You can set up a company with say 2000 shares and sell them at &#163;2 or &#163;5 to the first 200 members. The first 2000 people will then be shareholders and will be allowed to vote. This will help the company get over its initial overhead costs with servers and equipment etc. In terms of shareholders getting banned we can put wording in that if one is banned they forfeit their share and it goes back into the pool. Then it can be sold to someone else and if there is more demand, after all the 2000 are finished then we can even set up an auction .... but I think I'm getting ahead of myself !!!
The other way is maybe to have a 2 tier susbcription, a voting subscription and a non voting one. Simple !

Anyway that's just some of my thoughts ...

:thinking2 :

Better get on with some real work though. Don't want to be here till midnight again :mallet:

Phil,
excellent post with some great suggestions.

steve f
11-11-2005, 10:30 AM
Phil,
excellent post with some great suggestions.
**** me that will sound great in the pub i am a share holder in a ferrari buisness

spidermanUK
11-11-2005, 01:11 PM
Phil,
excellent post with some great suggestions.
And an absolutely appalling one as well!
To suggest that someone should forfeit a shareholding at the whim of another is fundamentally wrong!
The reason we are all here is that one all powerful person decided that he didn't like the opinion of another, and he arbitrarily banned that person, no consultation, no hearing,no right of appeal!
Yes, I know you will say that this is different, we are more like-minded etc.etc.etc in that case, what harm would there be in one maverick owning a single share, their voice would be insignificant in terms of voting rights, and they would still be banned from posting and disrupting the site!

But picture this, if this site grows, which I'm CERTAIN it will, it will have commercial value to someone, maybe not to the extent of Friends Reunited or E-bay, but it could have a significant monetary worth.

We would have a huge problem with banned users who were previously shareholders arguing that they were only banned to stop them gaining from the sale of the business, and it's guaranteed that they would be able to cite other instances where forum rules were broken and no ban occurred.This would place an unacceptable burden upon the Mods.

We ban Trolls, but it's a very subjective decision to judge someone a Troll.

The organisation should set out to be non-profit making, but must still be mindful to look ahead at the potential issues that may arise.

As for the issue of trading off price against take-up, I agree, but I thought subscription was to be voluntary, not compulsory.If it is compulsory, then we will certainly struggle to maintain even the current users, some of whom are only occasional visitors, let alone grow users. It's the level of posting that makes this forum interesting and fun, if it becomes an exclusive private club, then it will be as busy as the FOC forum!

As for the subject of remuneration for the Officers of the organisation, I believe this is unnecessary, surely people will take the role because they want it, rather than for personal gain? It also overcomes any potential employment law issues!

Please feel free to argue or shoot me down in flames, but I've learnt from bitter personal experience, that it's better to sort these issues at the start, so that one can sit back and enjoy the ride, confident that there are no cans of worms!:thumbsup:

Hazy
11-11-2005, 02:01 PM
Please feel free to shoot me down in flames,


Okey Dokey.....:flamethro :flamethro :flamethro

F328NVL
11-11-2005, 02:13 PM
Any money left over will go into the pot.

I suggest it then go to a vote by the subscribed members to decide what to do with it.

Remember, it will be a non-profit making club.

I don't smoke pot - how about Marlboro Lights?

F328NVL
11-11-2005, 02:25 PM
This where I admit to being a partner in an accounting practice...

Ltd Company Issues:

1. Tax (corporate and VAT) and returns to companies house etc - beaurocracy and cost

2. Directors would have legal obligations to prevent various posts: Copyright/trademark infringements, Libel etc that could be onerous

Probably more, but that's what sprang to mind straight away.

There must be a better way than this. I'm a corporate financier (so not much use) but if it's helpful I could have a chat wth one of my partners from our charities group to see what's the best structure.

jg

355fiorano
11-11-2005, 02:32 PM
@Tony

Cheers Mate :thumbsup:

@Chaa
Mate there are ways and precedures to do anything in a way that would be acceptable to everyone that wants to join. What I have put up is some suggestions of a framework. Getting more indepth for example , the rules could be that no shareholder can be voted off unless there is a 75% majority vote from the other shareholders. That may solve this issue or another suggestion may do so as well.
As for the company I agree 100% that it should be a non-profit, private organization. In that context, the shares would never have any value above their "face value" i.e what you paid for them in the first place. Tradable shares in the stock market trade at a price which is a composite of the assets of the company + the expected profits of the company (to put it very simply). As this company will never have any profits, its shares value will always be equal to the assets i.e. the servers primarilly. As you know when you spend 100 today on a computer thingy it will be worth 10 by next year, so with the same analogy, if the initial shareholders stump up some cash to get some servers, this money is as good as gone. The only thing that would be of any value (unless we start buying properties like some other clubs ;) , would be the domain name, and I doubt that this is really anything. Just think, Rob has one of the most successful ferrair sites in the world. How much would you think someone would pay for that name... I bet hardly anything. Also, the only people that woudl therefore be interested in the shares would be the sites own subscribers as this would allow them to vote. Assuming, we have an excess of members to company shares, when one shareholder leaves then his voting share can be purchased by another susbcriber for another fiver or so. That would jsut raise some more cash for the kitty and the upkeep of the site.
Thanks for making the points however as we need people to question the ideas that get banded about. If we don't then we can get it really wrong. There is no one person that is the fountain of knowledge. Every suggsetion needs to pass good scrutennerig and hopefully get modified to a good solution by the end.

Cheers
Philip

tonyh
11-11-2005, 02:37 PM
This where I admit to being a partner in an accounting practice...

Ltd Company Issues:

1. Tax (corporate and VAT) and returns to companies house etc - beaurocracy and cost

2. Directors would have legal obligations to prevent various posts: Copyright/trademark infringements, Libel etc that could be onerous

Probably more, but that's what sprang to mind straight away.

There must be a better way than this. I'm a corporate financier (so not much use) but if it's helpful I could have a chat wth one of my partners from our charities group to see what's the best structure.

jg

Pls John, that wld be v helpful :)

355fiorano
11-11-2005, 02:49 PM
This where I admit to being a partner in an accounting practice...

Ltd Company Issues:

1. Tax (corporate and VAT) and returns to companies house etc - beaurocracy and cost
There would not be any tax to pay if there was no profits. Vat is not applicable to companies with a turnover of less that 55k I think so again should not be an issue.

2. Directors would have legal obligations to prevent various posts: Copyright/trademark infringements, Libel etc that could be onerous
I am not sure but I think that this does not have to be an issue. The comapnies Memorandums and Articles would state what the company is/does and set out the directors responsibilties. I am sure that no one can be sued for what someone else writes. Otherwise poeple would be suing Bill Gates because say a sladerous document was written in Microsoft Word or something.

Probably more, but that's what sprang to mind straight away.

There must be a better way than this. I'm a corporate financier (so not much use) but if it's helpful I could have a chat wth one of my partners from our charities group to see what's the best structure.

Don't know much about charites but I think that all clubs are ltd companies. There are only 2 basic legal strucutres. A limited company and a partnership. A limited company is basically a company whos liability is limited by the company's assets so if someone sues us for example the most they would get is what we could get for our servers :) . A partnership is dangerous as one can sue for up to the value of the partners wealth... outch There are limited partnerships etc but again not really better. The absolute simplest thing to do is a ltd comapany. Yes accounts need to be filed but that's about 100 p.a. to have them done and I'm sure its cheaper if we ge someone to do it up north! It would be helpful however to get any free advice we can so do ask your friend

jg

Replies in Red above :D

Angelis
11-11-2005, 03:39 PM
Lots of good points above. Please keep them coming. :thumbsup:

I've just discussed it with Jas who was one of the two original founders of the Lotus Elise Owners Club SELOC.

They set up a Ltd company where the shares were held in trust by the commitee. The biggest advantage is that there will be no personal liability for anyone. Very useful if we ever arrange trackdays etc.

jeffqv
11-11-2005, 05:27 PM
shame we live in such a regulated world! Anyway 20 to 30 seems fair to me, freebies gratefully accepted!

355fiorano
11-11-2005, 06:11 PM
Lots of good points above. Please keep them coming. :thumbsup:

I've just discussed it with Jas who was one of the two original founders of the Lotus Elise Owners Club SELOC.

They set up a Ltd company where the shares were held in trust by the commitee. The biggest advantage is that there will be no personal liability for anyone. Very useful if we ever arrange trackdays etc.

A trust costs a bit extra to run on a yearly basis but I don't quite understand the strucuture for this purpose. Normally a trust holds shares of a company to shiled taxation issues from the beneficiary and setlor (the person that sets is up). It has nothing to do with liabilites for track days or the directors liabilities. A trus is a tax thing only. Now what I don't know is if there is some special form of charitable trust or something that can by formed for the members of a club but this would be INSTEAD OF a ltd company. Jas i wander if you can ask or post here them specifically why this structure was used?

Cheers
Philip

Angelis
11-11-2005, 06:23 PM
A trust costs a bit extra to run on a yearly basis but I don't quite understand the strucuture for this purpose. Normally a trust holds shares of a company to shiled taxation issues from the beneficiary and setlor (the person that sets is up). It has nothing to do with liabilites for track days or the directors liabilities. A trus is a tax thing only. Now what I don't know is if there is some special form of charitable trust or something that can by formed for the members of a club but this would be INSTEAD OF a ltd company. Jas i wander if you can ask or post here them specifically why this structure was used?


The Ltd company would shield the members from any track day problems etc. I think the Ltd company shares were held in trust by teh commitee. If we issue all the members with 1 share, then it becomes an administratove headache.

What we need is something that both protects the members and is easy to administer.

I'm of the opinion to set up a similar structure as SELOC. They've been around for a few years and it seems to work.

panterasteve
15-11-2005, 09:32 PM
i think 0.50 for northerners and 550 for southerners cos all the events will be darn souf anyways:smile:

Angelis
15-11-2005, 09:48 PM
i think &#163;0.50 for northerners and &#163;550 for southerners cos all the events will be darn souf anyways:smile:

And 20% of it to go towards building a 100ft high wall along Luton to keep the Northerners out.

:wink3:

panterasteve
15-11-2005, 09:59 PM
And 20% of it to go towards building a 100ft high wall along Luton to keep the Northerners out.

:wink3:

luton whats wrong with watford:smile:

Angelis
15-11-2005, 10:02 PM
luton whats wrong with watford:smile:

We'll putting land mines between Watford and Luton.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Gibbsa
16-11-2005, 09:11 PM
I think and extra 10 is worth a tseteful tax disc holder, used to have one on my 911 that a porsche forum did. looked really good.

But I don't pay car tax.... :thumbsup: 30, with a T-Shirt...perfect...8p per day and northerners can be happy that it's extra value every leap year!

jimmy b
18-11-2005, 07:01 PM
A score (majority vote so far) or a pony (most appropriate as discussed) seem highly reasonable, and excellent value for money for contributing to this community, to me.... I've had one of the sh**est weeks in a long time this week, and finally got ten mins at the end of it to surf this forum - well worth the money for de-stressing and entertainment-value just for that!

Charity commission figures show that over 60 percent of total charitable donations each yr in UK are made via legacies on death, so all you rich Northerners with Fcars, don't forget to put this forum in your will for a grand. Your kids won't miss it. :thumbsup:

J.

Dale
04-12-2005, 02:26 PM
Free to me im on minimum wage:D

fan512bbi
14-12-2005, 09:41 PM
Free to me im on minimum wage:D
And me, i need all my money to buy my first Ferrari.