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View Full Version : [Advice Required] - F430 Coolant woes and some thoughts



Evripidis
21-12-2017, 09:45 AM
Hello all,

I am a new member and have decided to become a member to post a couple of questions because we are running out of options and some expert advice is neeed.

I am from Cyprus and I am posting this for a family member who owns an F430 and is in need of some solid advice. I own a vauxhall myself anyway! Being on an island resources regarding non-average cars is scarce and in many cases wrong; hence the reason why we are here. It is a bit of a horror story so proceed with an empty stomach!

Here is the story so far;

1. The car has had been basically sitting in a garage for most of its life. It was a second hand car but before we got it it was still sitting in a garage.

2. It was only started occasionaly maybe once a month if not less.

3. There have been no modofications as far as I could tell other than cosmetic; except maybe from the intake manifold which might have been replaced for a carbon one.

This is where it gets really ugly;

4. The car has developed an issue where coolant was mixing with oil. We got the usual response from a mechanic for it being the head gasket or a cracked cylinder head.

5. Somebody suggested that the oil cooler needed to be changed so they changed that.

6. Of course that did not resolve the problem and then it worsened.

Parental advisory needed for the next;

7. The magnificent mechanics decided they had to pull out the engine so they could work on it (replacing the head gasket). I am also not sure that they even bothered pressure testing the cylinder head.

8. The car is now sitting in the garage -bar the engine- and the engine at the mechanics' shop.

9. In the mean time an "executive car dealer" jumped in wanting to buy the car suggesting he imports another f430 engine to put in this one and then to buy it back.

10. Back at the mechanics they are trying to find a gasket kit.

I would like your honest opinion; technical or not on what we should do with this.

Regards to all.

Evros

Mike01606
21-12-2017, 12:46 PM
To be honest....have you tried FChat?
You will get more response and also a lot of guesswork and nonsense but there are more 430 owners on there.
You need to speak to a good technician over here but it’s better if they reach out to you rather than me recommend one.

Don’t make any decisions based on what a car dealer is telling you.

Good luck and I hope you get sorted......M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Evripidis
21-12-2017, 01:13 PM
Thank you Mike, already on it!

Evros

MWStewart
21-12-2017, 02:13 PM
The modern metal head gaskets don't really deteriorate with age, just use, so I wouldn't have gone near there.

I'd just like to confirm it was the heat exchanger that was replaced, which is number one in the following photo:
151515

There's coolant in the oil, but can you please check if there is oil in the coolant? It may only be a film on top.

The water and oil pump share the same shaft, and although it would be quite something for this to happen, I wonder if all of the seals have deteriorated and that's where the contamination is occurring.

A348W
21-12-2017, 03:19 PM
As Mike says, FChat will have more users etc.

But start at the basics.
1) Did it run and if so how e.g. did it struggle to run or was it fine etc?
2) Was the exhaust smoking at all, as this can also be a sign of head gasket failure?
3) As said above, if there is water in the oil, is there oil in the water?
4) How much oil/water was mixing and where did you see it?

From the schematics the heat exchanger and oil/water pump (as said above) look most likely culprits to start diagnostic from.

If the mechanics are "looking" for a gasket kit, I would suggest they are not familiar with F Cars, as a call to Eurospares/Superformance/Maranello et al would get you one on the first courier!!

If you don't get any joy, you might want to think about getting the car back together and over to a very reputable mechanic somewhere in Europe; just a thought.

Let us know how you go.

sssdu01
21-12-2017, 05:21 PM
If it was the heat exchanger that was faulty (which has now been replaced ?), it takes a lot of effort to get the oil out of the water so even after its been fixed you will still get oil residue in the water, as the oil will float to the top and the 430 cooling system has lots of places that are very difficult to clean out

My advice would be

1 Find a proper mechanic
2 Do proper fault finding and analysis to establish the most likely cause
- Basic Head gasket check This should be chemical checks of the water system to see if any combustion residue is present
- Basic Compression check of each cylinder - this is the secondary way to check head gasket
- Leak down check on each cylinder - this is done with compressed air and again will help to pinpoint head gasket related issues
- There are many other things you can do but a proper mechanic should know all these things.
3 If the heat exchanger was changed then do advanced compression checks with compressed air, and the unit placed in water. You will soon find any leaks in it.

If your mechanic cant prove that he has done these basics than you have gone to the wrong mechanic and my advice would be to take to car and engine away to either a proper mechanic who knows what he is doing, or put it on a ferry to take it to another country where you might be able to find a proper mechanic. I am no joking as an unskilled idiot could wreck the engine especially if he has taken off the cylinder head, as this involves disturbing camshafts etc and you need to know what you are doing.
Also taking it to an experienced Ferrari expert, will have to bonus of them knowing what to look for with leaks etc.

paul71a
21-12-2017, 09:09 PM
This is a joke post? Yes?

So you have a £100k car that’s been laid up and you let loose a bunch of unknowing cretins with no Ferrari knowledge????????

I hate to think what you’d do if you needed brain surgery? Employ an equine vet?

Get it into the hands of a specialist, or if not, then a dealer.....

You need protecting from yourself.

cgt
21-12-2017, 09:44 PM
I hate to think what you’d do if you needed brain surgery? Employ an equine vet?

There is a reality TV star in the white house who has nuclear weapons at his disposal.. [emoji848]

Carper
21-12-2017, 10:27 PM
This is a joke post? Yes?

So you have a £100k car that’s been laid up and you let loose a bunch of unknowing cretins with no Ferrari knowledge????????

I hate to think what you’d do if you needed brain surgery? Employ an equine vet?

Get it into the hands of a specialist, or if not, then a dealer.....

You need protecting from yourself.

.:laughinat

geoffpfc
22-12-2017, 12:59 AM
There is a reality TV star in the white house who has nuclear weapons at his disposal.. [emoji848]

And your point is:hmmm:

Modificato
22-12-2017, 01:35 AM
:carfront::flogdeadhorse:

col68
31-12-2017, 05:11 PM
Water pumps have been problematic on 430's

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=txhfY6tM4_E

Modificato
02-01-2018, 11:49 AM
...as they are on any car when not used. M

Lost count of the number of 599gto’s that are suffering the same fate yet the (more used) 599Gtb’s seem to be immune.

Let’s just call it investor related failure.

The first line of this thread talked of a car being left for years in a garage.

And still the market values low mileage:thumbsup:

thecook
02-01-2018, 06:16 PM
...as they are on any car when not used. M

Lost count of the number of 599gto’s that are suffering the same fate yet the (more used) 599Gtb’s seem to be immune.

Let’s just call it investor related failure.

The first line of this thread talked of a car being left for years in a garage.

And still the market values low mileage:thumbsup:

This exactly. I ran boats for 6 years (sail and power) and at the end of every season we'd take a week to dismantle pumps, winches etc, and then a week to put them back together at the start of the next season. Everything was dried, lubed, cleaned etc to prevent failure. Pumps are the worst for failure due to non-use.

Modificato
02-01-2018, 07:45 PM
This exactly. I ran boats for 6 years (sail and power) and at the end of every season we'd take a week to dismantle pumps, winches etc, and then a week to put them back together at the start of the next season. Everything was dried, lubed, cleaned etc to prevent failure. Pumps are the worst for failure due to non-use.

Exactly.

Every time I chat with Ferrari workshop guys (the ones who do the work note, not the owners who love the money coming in) the number one topic is the Ferrari reputation for fragility and lack of reliability driven by lack of use.

If all you are going to do is look at it or keep it for special occasions aquatic maintenance schedules would be more relevant.

Nosevi
02-01-2018, 10:29 PM
This exactly. I ran boats for 6 years (sail and power) and at the end of every season we'd take a week to dismantle pumps, winches etc, and then a week to put them back together at the start of the next season. Everything was dried, lubed, cleaned etc to prevent failure. Pumps are the worst for failure due to non-use.

You clearly had nicer boats than mine - my pumps were always well used :laugh: