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LeeP
17-11-2005, 08:37 PM
Am stuck with an exchange problem ... anyone spare 5 mins? :D

barabus
17-11-2005, 08:41 PM
Am stuck with an exchange problem ... anyone spare 5 mins? :D

I can give you 5 mins Lee but I Cant Understand New Technology:cry3:

steve f
17-11-2005, 08:44 PM
russ could help but his laptop has been stolen :mad: :mad: :mad:

tom
17-11-2005, 08:46 PM
I don't 'do' exchange I'm afraid, although I probably should :embarasse

Hud
17-11-2005, 08:46 PM
can you guys be serious, its my exchange thats playing up.

barabus
17-11-2005, 08:50 PM
can you guys be serious, its my exchange thats playing up.


hehehehehe:laugh: :cry3: :laugh: :cry3: :laugh: :cry3: :laugh: :cry3: :laugh:

Hud
17-11-2005, 08:52 PM
But i do have a lovely new IP ADDRESS.:thumbsup:

GrahamS
17-11-2005, 08:54 PM
can you guys be serious, its my sexchange thats playing up.
They turned you back into a woman?

stevew
17-11-2005, 08:55 PM
They turned you back into a woman?

Now that is funny :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hud
17-11-2005, 08:57 PM
They turned you back into a woman?

please be serious. lee is getting very stroppy:

steve f
17-11-2005, 09:01 PM
russ could help but his laptop has been stolen :mad: :mad: :mad:
i am being serious :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Hud
17-11-2005, 09:16 PM
i am being serious :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

lee has sold it to fund his evilknievel lifestyle.he will be rasing money soon by jumping 42 double decker buses and will attempt to clear the leeds viaduct using only one leg.
All money raised will go towards russ' laptop.

Pauli
17-11-2005, 09:56 PM
Yeah Lee what version of exchange is it and whats the problem?

If you want to skype me or better still msn messenger

paul_ingram@hotmail.com


P

Hud
17-11-2005, 10:09 PM
Yeah Lee what version of exchange is it and whats the problem?

If you want to skype me or better still msn messenger

paul_ingram@hotmail.com


P

Paul im with lee, can you pm me youre mobile?

MR 51 AMB
17-11-2005, 10:13 PM
Rob, can you ask Lee how I can reduce that video of Stewart from 15.5mb to 10mb so that I can e-mail it?

Cheers Matey
x

Hud
17-11-2005, 10:15 PM
Rob, can you ask Lee how I can reduce that video of Stewart from 15.5mb to 10mb so that I can e-mail it?

Cheers Matey
x

we have a slight problem with 9 pcs not doing what they should be doing at the momemt. ill ask him when the airs not blue

yellowtr
17-11-2005, 10:56 PM
Am stuck with an exchange problem ... anyone spare 5 mins? :D

Whatsup mate? Ask away..

Jonny5
17-11-2005, 11:49 PM
sendmail no problem, but none of that microsoft crap

Hud
18-11-2005, 12:21 AM
cheers inkboy. You are a legend.

Pauli
18-11-2005, 12:25 AM
cheers inkyboy. You are a legend.


It has been known!!

My pleasure, so for the hours my missus lost in clingy time she says you owe her a lifetime of fruit and veg, and then maybe I'll eat some!!

Seriously it was no problem.:thumbsup:

Bill Gates is my hero, well he keeps me in a job, and so does old Larry too.....in joke for the IT geeks....

MalcH
18-11-2005, 12:27 AM
sendmail no problem, but none of that microsoft crap
:tongue3::tongue3::tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:

Jonny5
18-11-2005, 10:18 AM
It has been known!!

My pleasure, so for the hours my missus lost in clingy time she says you owe her a lifetime of fruit and veg, and then maybe I'll eat some!!

Seriously it was no problem.:thumbsup:

Bill Gates is my hero, well he keeps me in a job, and so does old Larry too.....in joke for the IT geeks....

Larry as in google ? lol

GrahamS
18-11-2005, 10:31 AM
Larry as in google ? lol
Larry Ellison of Oracle fame?

Hud
18-11-2005, 10:32 AM
It has been known!!

My pleasure, so for the hours my missus lost in clingy time she says you owe her a lifetime of fruit and veg, and then maybe I'll eat some!!

Seriously it was no problem.:thumbsup:

Bill Gates is my hero, well he keeps me in a job, and so does old Larry too.....in joke for the IT geeks....

A rather large mooli on its way over. Should put a smile on her face:smiley:

tom
18-11-2005, 11:17 AM
Larry Ellison of Oracle fame?
Larry Flint?

Jonny5
18-11-2005, 01:14 PM
Larry Ellison of Oracle fame?

i thought it may be ellison, but then I thought the joke would be because of "IT professionals" reliance on google for answers to solve their problems

F328GTS
18-11-2005, 01:18 PM
Bill Gates is my hero, well he keeps me in a job, and so does old Larry too.....in joke for the IT geeks....

Leisure Suit Larry?

GrahamS
18-11-2005, 01:23 PM
i thought it may be ellison, but then I thought the joke would be because of "IT professionals" reliance on google for answers to solve their problems
I rely on the copy & paste functionality. Every new class/function I need to write now is just a variation of something I've written previously.

Makes for an easy life :thumbsup:

Pauli
19-11-2005, 03:47 PM
I meant Larry of Oracle.


And what is a mooli Rob?

Pauli
19-11-2005, 03:49 PM
Oh and sendmail is for poofs and people who don't understand IT properly.....(That should start an argument in an empty house)

Pauli
19-11-2005, 03:52 PM
Should put a smile on her face:smiley:

It'll be a first then.....:grin:

Hud
19-11-2005, 03:52 PM
Oh and sendmail is for poofs and people who don't understand IT properly.....(That should start an argument in an empty house)


Thanks for your help the other night mate. You prevented a near global disaster.:thumbsup:

Pauli
19-11-2005, 03:53 PM
Thanks for your help the other night mate. You prevented a near global disaster.:thumbsup:
Nae probs, and the moral of the story is......don't let LeeP do your IT for ya!!:thumbsup:

Actually he wasn't far from the answer

Hud
19-11-2005, 04:14 PM
Nae probs, and the moral of the story is......don't let LeeP do your IT for ya!!:thumbsup:

Actually he wasn't far from the answer

To be fair lee has done a superb job. in effect he taken a knackered 1.1 engine out of a car and fitted a v8. Naturally there will always be hiccups when doing such a major job and the help from yourelf and others has been superb. the new network is now much quicker and secure and allows us to run the software updates we needed to .

steve f
19-11-2005, 04:39 PM
he was loading windows xp on russ's laptop but its gone missing :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Hud
19-11-2005, 04:56 PM
he was loading windows xp on russ's laptop but its gone missing :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

nope he has found it now.

steve f
19-11-2005, 05:00 PM
nope he has found it now.
yea yea like when he was abducted by aliens and met elvis

Hud
19-11-2005, 05:17 PM
yea yea like when he was abducted by aliens and met elvis

turned up when he moved.

Jonny5
19-11-2005, 05:54 PM
Oh and sendmail is for poofs and people who don't understand IT properly.....(That should start an argument in an empty house)

ooh, nice, unix-vs-windows

go on then, care to add to that ?

Hud
19-11-2005, 07:07 PM
ooh, nice, unix-vs-windows

go on then, care to add to that ?

machine code rocks

Pauli
19-11-2005, 07:43 PM
ooh, nice, unix-vs-windows

go on then, care to add to that ?

To be honest Unix is a poor job for small companies and you have to buy hardware to builting things like Load balancing and sijmple IP stuff, IMHO Windows works better for 90% of organisations and the licensing costs of Oracle against SQL is a simple debate, it's cheaper and provide the same functionality, endof!!

Also you really must ask the qwuestion why Sun is now building a platform that runs windows with an chipset thats a windows belter!!

Pauli
19-11-2005, 07:46 PM
To be fair lee has done a superb job. in effect he taken a knackered 1.1 engine out of a car and fitted a v8. Naturally there will always be hiccups when doing such a major job and the help from yourelf and others has been superb. the new network is now much quicker and secure and allows us to run the software updates we needed to .


No your right it sounds like he took on a bit of a task and just needed a wee bit of support, it's hard to diagnose problems when your doing so many takss at obmce. Thats why I like working in a team as it's always easy to bounce ideas of other tema mates.

I was surprised at the knowledge he was at to be fair on him.

I was only taking the piss out of Lee and I'm sure we all see it for the joke that it is.

I was morew than happy to help as it means he owes me a favour when I stuck!! lol

Hud
19-11-2005, 07:56 PM
No your right it sounds like he took on a bit of a task and just needed a wee bit of support, it's hard to diagnose problems when your doing so many takss at obmce. Thats why I like working in a team as it's always easy to bounce ideas of other tema mates.

I was surprised at the knowledge he was at to be fair on him.

I was only taking the piss out of Lee and I'm sure we all see it for the joke that it is.

I was morew than happy to help as it means he owes me a favour when I stuck!! lol

i was suprised too. first time he's done one. dont worry about the pee taking thought that is what the site was for:thumbsup:

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 12:50 AM
To be honest Unix is a poor job for small companies and you have to buy hardware to builting things like Load balancing and sijmple IP stuff, IMHO Windows works better for 90% of organisations and the licensing costs of Oracle against SQL is a simple debate, it's cheaper and provide the same functionality, endof!!

Also you really must ask the qwuestion why Sun is now building a platform that runs windows with an chipset thats a windows belter!!

you my friend are living in cloud cuckoo land.

having worked at JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, Barclays Capital, Standard Chartered, Reuters and SUN I can hardly agree with you.

At the end of the day any company providing enterprise class service will run on Sun hardware, Solaris OS, EMC Storage, Oracle Databases (if applicable)

MalcH
20-11-2005, 01:07 AM
Also you really must ask the qwuestion why Sun is now building a platform that runs windows with an chipset thats a windows belter!!
Not so sure they work well together though.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27605

Sun have had to make these "alliances" because of the ever increasing threat from Linux.

Sun builds these machines to compete in that market. Yes they will run Windows and Linux too. But they prefer to run Solaris. :wink3:

As you probably know Sun hardware has traditionally been expensive compared to Wintel, though naturally that is because it is far superior :thumbsup::grin:

Using AMD chips keeps the cost down.

I don't run a company but if I did and a database was required, it would use Oracle on Sun. IMHO Long term ROI, it wins hands down. Not to mention reliability. Unbeatable combination :thumbsup:

I should mention I believe Windows is fit for purpose, VGood at least since W2K, but what the Win9X bolox was about I will never know.

Flaming on the horizon :flamethro

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:27 AM
I work with both Sun and MS and honestly the cost of maintenance and skill required to do any enterprise route in a Sun Solaris environment running all these IBM and specialised products like Oracle is never even close to the ROI that Windows on Intel provide.

Everytime you weant to do something in non-windows world you need some extra bit of hardware or some other software to go with it, and it's always the licensing that is the cost and the configuration route is a nightmare to get working first time.

I work with some of the biggest companies in the world and have been a consultant for over 10 years and have no preference to either side, but what I will say is that if you have a pocket that is deeper that the worlds tallest building then you have both options but if you want to grow your company from something small to something big, non-windows is not the way to go.

I worked as a consultant for Sun for a bit and MS for a bit so I really know both sides very well, and unless you have about 5 million to spend then your kidding yourself on that non-windows is gonna get you somewhere!!

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:29 AM
well said malcolm

At the end of the day windows/wintel doesn't scale above 4 procs. Premium performance environments need scalability, one of my apps at Reuters runs a full Sun f20k 36xDual core procs clustered to another f20k, around 4 million quid. And we have 12xf12k to f20ks alongside a Sun unix estate of 2500 servers. Hardly for small timers hey.

And with all this expensive kit comes even more expensive consultancy rates :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Hud
20-11-2005, 01:29 AM
I work with both Sun and MS and honestly the cost of maintenance and skill required to do any enterprise route in a Sun Solaris environment running all these IBM and specialised products like Oracle is never even close to the ROI that Windows on Intel provide.

Everytime you weant to do something in non-windows world you need some extra bit of hardware or some other software to go with it, and it's always the licensing that is the cost and the configuration route is a nightmare to get working first time.

I work with some of the biggest companies in the world and have been a consultant for over 10 years and have no preference to either side, but what I will say is that if you have a pocket that is deeper that the worlds tallest building then you have both options but if you want to grow your company from something small to something big, non-windows is not the way to go.

I worked as a consultant for Sun for a bit and MS for a bit so I really know both sides very well, and unless you have about 5 million to spend then your kidding yourself on that non-windows is gonna get you somewhere!!

hey can you it bods talk through this in english:snore: :grin:

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:31 AM
I can talk E10K and E15K all day but I was trying to keep the others in the loop :grin: happy with that Rob?

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:33 AM
I worked as a consultant for Sun for a bit and MS for a bit so I really know both sides very well, and unless you have about 5 million to spend then your kidding yourself on that non-windows is gonna get you somewhere!!

£ for £, proc for proc, license for license Solaris on Sun hardware is cheaper than any windows offering. end of

Windows is for small time, non enterprise-class environments requiring cheaper staff offsetting against uptime

Hud
20-11-2005, 01:34 AM
I can talk E10K and E15K all day but I was trying to keep the others in the loop :grin: happy with that Rob?

ok im out! ill stick to cauliflowers!:smile:

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:35 AM
well said malcolm

At the end of the day windows/wintel doesn't scale above 4 procs. Premium performance environments need scalability, one of my apps at Reuters runs a full Sun f20k 36xDual core procs clustered to another f20k, around 4 million quid. Any we have 12xf12k to f20ks alongside a Sun unix estate of 2500 servers. Hardly for small timers hey.

And with all this expensive kit comes even more expensive consultancy rates :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


I recently upgraded 28 servers running the middle and front layer for RBS banking for rbs.co.uk and natwest.co.uk websites so I think scaling horizontally is a better way to go IMO for alot of companies. Any mor for anymore?

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:36 AM
I recently upgraded 28 servers running the middle and front layer for RBS banking for rbs.co.uk and natwest.co.uk websites so I think scaling horizontally is a better way to go IMO for alot of companies. Any mor for anymore?

I've worked for both RBS and Natwest, they both back end their databases on Sun F25ks

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:38 AM
I'm not saying wintel doesn't have it's place it does, generally in the form of Linux and yes horizontally scaled in the webplace, but i just don't agree when it comes to databases

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:40 AM
I've worked for both RBS and Natwest, they both back end their databases on Sun F25ks

yeah maybe they are as it wasn't my area at RBS, I'm only providing an answer to the scaling solution and from the outset I've said that money and company size are important in the discussion points.

RBS do use MS SQL so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't plan to move it to MS though as they have all their mortgage data on MS SQL.

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:42 AM
and from the outset I've said that money and company size are important in the discussion points.

Agreed

francisn
20-11-2005, 01:48 AM
I just LURVE my Macs :-)

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:51 AM
Agreed

good we agree on something....:grin:


Seriously I understand what you mean, but it's the old argument init of size of wallet and what the CIO wants you want to buy, but I firmly believe that 90% of the UK's companies aren't at the scale of the companies you work for, but there are some major companies at that scale that use MS for everything and I think the finance sector being largely historical mainframe will always be a unix place.

Sorry Rob but you'll understand none of this bit......
My personal view is when SNA is replaced with IP the unix world will cease as accountants will control the IT world and quite frankly will be getting better deals in the windows world.

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:51 AM
I just LURVE my Macs :-)

yep me too, they run on unix :grin:

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:54 AM
I just LURVE my Macs :-)

I do love their styling and have got many friends who use them some for graphics which is what I've always thought they were good for and some for a mainstream PC.

I quite fancy one actually, love the speakers etc

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:54 AM
yep me too, they run on unix :grin:

are you sure, is it not really OS2?

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:55 AM
My personal view is when SNA is replaced with IP the unix world will cease as accountants will control the IT world and quite frankly will be getting better deals in the windows world.

If this should ever be the case, i'm sure that'll not be that bothered as that aint gonna happen any time soon and by that time i'll be kicking back on my yaught paid for by unix :tongue3:

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:56 AM
If this should ever be the case, i'm sure that'll not be that bothered as that aint gonna happen any time soon and by that time i'll be kicking back on my yaught paid for by unix :tongue3:

I'm deffo in wrong job as I only have a Predator 63........:grin:

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 01:57 AM
are you sure, is it not really OS2?

err yes - BSD Unix

Pauli
20-11-2005, 01:58 AM
err yes - BSD Unix


oh right I wasn't sure I just thought it was from originally OS 2 Warp

steve f
20-11-2005, 08:50 AM
well i use windows XP :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3:

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 12:56 PM
well i use windows XP :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3:

case closed

MalcH
20-11-2005, 04:27 PM
Paul,
It certainly seems you have alot more experience in the financial IT sector than I. I have worked mainly for Engineering companies and have seen a move from UNIX systems to windows, though mainly because of end customer (or user if you like that term) tools.

CAD/CAM is now widely available on windows systems too.

All this said, E-Hosting and all databases are generally run on UNIX systems, and SNA I think I am right in saying has been mainly used in the financial sector proprietry IBM licensed?

I firmly believe in engineering and local government (of which I now work on) the threat to Windows and UNIX is Linux.

I believe Linux is the next big threat.

All this is good news whatever you prefer. Why because non of us want a single vendor market. Competition is important.

I disagree with you about businesses moving over to windows. It won't happen.

Linux is the growth area I am sure.

MalcH
20-11-2005, 04:27 PM
All this is good news whatever you prefer. Why because non of us want a single vendor market. Competition is important.

I disagree with you about businesses moving over to windows. It won't happen that much.

Linux is the growth area I am sure.

MalcH
20-11-2005, 04:29 PM
well i use windows XP :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3:

So do I Steve and it works just absolutely fine. Simple to use and very rarely ever stops :thumbsup:

Jonny5
20-11-2005, 04:49 PM
Linux is the growth area I am sure.

Sure is, I designed and technically headed up the team which put the first Linux boxes into Barcap

t1grm
20-11-2005, 08:39 PM
WTF is SNA?

FWIW I work in the ERP sector mostly for manufacturing and distribution companies – not financial – and I’ve never been on a Windows site. Every company I’ve contracted for runs it back office apps on UNIX boxes. Windows / SQL Server just doesn’t have the “grunt” for the job I’m told.

As has been said Linux seems to be a growth area. My current client is in the process of migrating all their apps servers from IBM AIX to Linux.

tom
21-11-2005, 12:22 AM
SNA is IBM's proprietary networking protocol, assuming we're on the same wavelength.

I wish I'd stuck with Linux now, it seems to be a huge growth area and I've moved away from it. Stupidly.

Pauli
21-11-2005, 12:54 AM
Gents, everyone has their own requirments in companies, but my personal view is that Linux being open source will never be fully embraced by secure enviroments as it is open source, but as I said it is only my view and this is the feeling by working with various high profile very secure enviroments.

I like linux for what it is, a cheap way into Unix benefits but that all I see it as, and I really don't think secure enviroments will embrace it at a rapid and high growth rate.

Oh and Stevef just you stick to running that American OS of yours!!:laugh: cos you love Americans!!

Pauli
21-11-2005, 12:55 AM
SNA is IBM's proprietary networking protocol, assuming we're on the same wavelength.

correct

steve f
21-11-2005, 08:42 AM
well i still use windows xp

Jonny5
21-11-2005, 10:04 AM
my personal view is that Linux being open source will never be fully embraced by secure enviroments as it is open source, but as I said it is only my view and this is the feeling by working with various high profile very secure enviroments.

I like linux for what it is, a cheap way into Unix benefits but that all I see it as, and I really don't think secure enviroments will embrace it at a rapid and high growth rate.



Again disagree, Solaris is open source and that is the OS of choice for the military and MI5

Pauli
21-11-2005, 12:19 PM
The problem I see with open source is that it will belong to developers who don't even work for the company, however with closed OS products, they do what it says on the tin, and also allows a proper SLA model for most companies.

I see open source as a dangerous support model for businesses who are trying to have 24hr systems, as all you need is a clever open source developer to make lots of changes to different servers with no change control, and when he leaves you now have the difficulty of maintaining any support that you had before as he was basically holding the show togeather with bits of his knowledge and nothing else. With MS however, developers will never modify any OS or product unless it's approved by MS as a quick fix.

I believe open source is a great idea if you want a job for life and want to be the hero of the hour, but it's not for me, and I can't see how I'd advise any company to look at it for enterprise systems.

I think we should all remember that thing we know best..........

"Nothing is for free in this life!!"

Jonny5
21-11-2005, 01:08 PM
Your point in a general way is valid, but in my experience at blue chip companies just because source code is available it doesn't mean your layer of support / fix is either in or out of house developers. They are backed up with support contracts given by major suppliers - i.e there is no difference in support for Redhat linux provided by Sun (or HP) than if you had a support query for a high end Solaris box. Our SLAs are the same cross Unix platforms

Obviously poor change control affects any environment be it opensource or not.

Pauli
21-11-2005, 01:17 PM
Obviously poor change control affects any environment be it opensource or not.

Totally agree with the above.

If you have an automated server/OS/app build, via a highly scripted install, with majorly tight change control then I'd say open source is a good way forward, but is it not then just the same as any closed code product?

MalcH
21-11-2005, 01:20 PM
I think we can argue until we are blue in the face. Lets agree to disagree for now.

In the future we can remember this and congratulate whomever got the correct prediction ;)

Pauli
21-11-2005, 01:22 PM
I think we can argue until we are blue in the face. Lets agree to disagree for now.

In the future we can remember this and congratulate whomever got the correct prediction ;)

It's not an argument malc, I'm liking jonny5's views as it allows other IT people like myself to learn about othjer environments.

MalcH
21-11-2005, 01:24 PM
It's not an argument malc, I'm liking jonny5's views as it allows other IT people like myself to learn about othjer environments.

Bad choice of words on my part. A difference of opinion then?

Pauli
21-11-2005, 01:33 PM
Bad choice of words on my part. A difference of opinion then?
Possibly, anyway Jonny5 has said some good stuff which has made me think about some things, and also I didn't know that Solaris was open source now, so I learned something, thats was what I was getting at.

I get bored of car talk sometimes, and never get enuff geek chat so thanks Jonny5.:thumbsup:

MalcH
21-11-2005, 01:40 PM
Possibly, anyway Jonny5 has said some good stuff which has made me think about some things, and also I didn't know that Solaris was open source now, so I learned something, thats was what I was getting at.

I get bored of car talk sometimes, and never get enuff geek chat so thanks Jonny5.:thumbsup:
O/source oh yes... http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/opensolaris.jsp