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430 warm start issues

4

430manual

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Hello all, newbie here seeking help!

I have a 430 coupe manual which unfortunately spends a good deal of time in storage until I am brave enough to tell the wife I own it!

It comes out to lay a couple of times a year and has historically been faultless but last year I picked it up from storage where it is on a trickle charger, cold started perfectly with that flare of the Revs and high idle for a while. Drove 50 miles and pulled in for fuel. Went to restart and it barely caught on the starter, certainly no flare of the revs. Idled very low indeed, close to cutting out. Then seemed to clear and all carried on as usual.

At the annual service in October last year I explained the symptoms to dealer and we decided to replace the plugs (a year early).

Unfortunately no change. So this year we have replaced the battery, and again the problem is still there.

I have put the car away for the winter now (dk engineering) but knowing something is not right is troubling me!

On Saturday I started the car from cold and it was fine, drive 50 miles, filled up with fuel to put away for the winter and it really really struggled to start, even cut out. Then it cleared. I drove a mile down the road from fuel station to the storage facility, turned it off then went to demonstrate the problem to them, pressed the start button and it started perfectly!!

Any thoughts / ideas? Could it be intermittent problem with starter motor?

Thanks in advance
 
The pattern seems to be it starts OK from cold, but not from hot, a heat-soaked shutdown. Before you find the fix and need to restart the car soon after shutting down, leave to cool for a little time. Maybe it is heat in the engine bay that is causing some difficulty.

You could check the crankshaft position sensor, fuel vapour lock and pressure regulator, throttle body adaptation, and connections to the battery.

To share the only experience I have similar to this is with a later car, with an AGM battery. I leave on a trickle charger, but if not driven within two weeks, it does not start the first time. The second time it will start weakly and give electrical faults. After driving and more frequent driving it will start OK. Tested the battery and it was reading low, near half the amps. I asked the mechanic to test the alternator—all was fine. Changed the battery and it seemed to start more easily (I have driven once since the change, this was yesterday). Also, I read but have forgotten the details, it is important to select "AGM" mode on the Ctek charger for AGM batteries. Maybe the conditioning cycle is different and affects the battery's health. I was not doing this. The battery is burried deep under many covers, but now I know I have an AGM battery, I will keep on the charger with AGM mode selected.

I love that you are keeping the purchase secret from your wife. Often, when I sneak in home late after a sneaky night drive, I change my clothes and they smell of Italian leather. It is like being caught with lipstick on a collar.
 
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I'm not at all familiar with a 430 but when this happens to a 348 it can indicate the flywheel needs repacking with grease. The car will start when cold, it'll be ok if you stop it when hot then restart quite quickly afterwards but if you stop it when hot, leave it a few mins then try to restart it'll do exactly as you've described. Could well be a 430 flywheel is totally different but on earlier cars this can cause the symptoms you've described.
 
Thanks guys. when I replaced the battery at this year's service last week I was hopeful it had solved it but straight from Maranello Service to DK Engineering it started fine from cold, stopped for fuel just down the road from DK and then it failed again! Earlier in the year in the summer when it did it someone at DK said they thought there was a smell of fuel in the cabin. Would this suggest the fuel vapour lock?

And yeah the wife thing is getting interesting. Four years since I bought the car back (I have owned it twice) and every year it is getting more difficult to confess!!
 
I guess it could be some form of fueling issue down to something physical as you have suggested an ECU issue or even a MAF issue. Always tricky to track these things down when they are intermittent but my first port of call for any rough running on my car is to clean all electrical contacts to MAFs, TPS etc just to rule that out. I'd also do an ECU relearn and check MAF resistance as well. Not sure of the procedure for either on a 430 but guessing it can be done. It quite possibly isn't just a contact issue but it's easy and free to rule it out and does no harm.
 
For the fuel vapour lock/evaporative emission system, if the purge valve is stuck open or leaking when it shouldn’t be, there could be a smell of fuel, raw fuel vapour floods the intake, leading to a rich mixture and difficult restart, and low idle or near-stall until excess vapour clears. Maybe a hot engine is boiling off fuel, and the pressure is not stabilising correctly.

I am disappointed to hear it was suggested to you to change the spark plugs, probably for a cost over £1k, and leave you to it. As a layperson, I would have also ruled out a faulty battery in this case. That is precisely why I created a thread asking for good centres in Surrey. I was very displeased with Marenello's service last year.

I think you could call and chat to people like those I mentioned in that thread, Scott at DCT Scuderia, Simon at SS Auto Tech, and Neal Lucas, although these might not be close to you.
 
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