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New Garage Build - Planning Permission Advice

Nosevi

Nosevi

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Hi all,

I'm looking at building a new detached double garage next to my house and converting my current attached garage into living space. Looking at something similar to the picture below. The building itself is a direct copy of numerous others next to houses near my house, other than the steps up the outside and converted loft area. The only snag is that I'd have to build into a small field or paddock I own to the side of my house. I bought the land, which is about half an acre, from a local farmer about 7 years ago and it's just been grass with a few fruit trees in since then. It's divided from the main field with post a rail fencing and a traditional Lincolnshire hedge. Prior to me buying the land the area I'll be looking to build on was actually a sort of rough grassed buffer zone between my property and the farmer's field but according to land useage maps it's listed as agricultural land so I'm going to have to apply for a 'Change of Use' for the small amount of land I'll need to build on. Has anyone had dealings with their Local Planning Authority and if so, any top tips? Other pics below show the area next to my house before I bought the land and how it is now, just to give an idea. Many thanks.
 

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Albert, thanks. Had been to the Planning Portal but had missed this doc, just been through the 'noddy guide' and the legislation. Will have a good read and see what extra info I can pick up. Much appreciated.


Edit: Albert, prior to edit was talking land classes as opposed to development classes. :)
 
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Cheers for that Albert, think I've got my head round all the legislation, guidance etc. Basically I've got to extend my garden and nothing else will allow me to build there. Once I've done that I'll still need planning permission due to the height of the garage I'm looking to build. I've heard 'rumour' that Local Planning Authorities can be 'interesting' to work with but I hope I've got a few things on my side and they'll see my point of view.

- Firstly, I already own the land in question and it's been divided from the fields for some years - I've been very careful not to put anything in it that is against planning regs as it's classed as agricultural, you're not even allowed to turf it as this might look like a garden.
- Secondly I'm looking at building on land that was not actually formerly open field as such, but was a buffer zone between my house and the field (I've actually got a large area further out on my patch of land that I've left long grass since I bought the land so the habitat itself will not really be lost.)
- Thirdly, all my neighbours are in favour, I've spoken to everyone in my close and they all say they'll support the plan - no one else will even be able to see it and we're on a private road.
- Lastly, on many guidance notes put out by local authorities they give examples of acceptable requests for extending gardens, which basically amounts to squaring off in line with existing properties' gardens. In fact prior to me buying the land next to my house, in reality it was squared off anyway. Although the land useage maps show the 'curtilage' coming in close to my house (it followed the remains of a wall that was removed when my house was built) in reality the visible edge of the village was a straight line that was level with the gardens behind my house.

So, what do you think my chances are? I hope I can persuade them as it would mean going from a pretty small attached garage with bearly enough room to get round the car, to a large double garage (only the Fcar to go in though) with a room above - clearly a massive improvement. Oh yes, and I can convert my current garage into extra room I now need for my kids which my wife keeps reminding me is actually the whole reason for doing it. :)

Below is an example of what most councils consider acceptable extension to your garden taken from guidance put out from a council near me known to be defensive of it's countryside (Rutland in this case), an aerial shot of how the borders looked prior to me buying my field and a map showing the mapped edge of my 'curtilage' showing the area I would need to 'square off' in order to build, which in reality just matches what was there before.
 

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Albert much appreciated your note and advice. Couldn't reply, think it may be down to your account settings or something along those lines. Anyway cheers.

Pete
 
Hi there Pete, i have quite a bit of experience with planning for garages and such
1st if you are on a greed belt it is going to be very hard or should i say impossible to build what you want. You need to find a policy call PPG2 that states what can and cannot be built here is something i have just found but confess to not reading it.

http://studio425.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/green-belt-planning-policy-ppg2.html

From memory any out building needs to be single story in appearance so no windows in the roof etc.
 
Thanks Paul, the skylights are gone (for now anyway).

Regarding Green Belt land, not something we have to worry about here as there isn't any (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/gr...8387/Interactive-map-Englands-green-belt.html) I guess it's because Green Belt land is to limit urban sprawl and we don't do that in Lincolnshire - it's practically all open space! My understanding is that they can only use this legislation for land that is Green Belt land not just open contryside. Just read the legislation (now NPPF) and it seems to be written to limit major development, I can see the Planning Offices using it to stop you putting your toe over the line though.

One thing I'm struggling to find though is how much say (if any) local residents and the Parish Council have. I understand the Planning Officer will ask them, but do they put what they say high on the list of priorities when they decide the application. I would hope so as they are the people representing the people who may be affected.
 
Nosevi said:
Thanks Paul, the skylights are gone (for now anyway).

Regarding Green Belt land, not something we have to worry about here as there isn't any (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/gr...8387/Interactive-map-Englands-green-belt.html) I guess it's because Green Belt land is to limit urban sprawl and we don't do that in Lincolnshire - it's practically all open space! My understanding is that they can only use this legislation for land that is Green Belt land not just open contryside. Just read the legislation (now NPPF) and it seems to be written to limit major development, I can see the Planning Offices using it to stop you putting your toe over the line though.

One thing I'm struggling to find though is how much say (if any) local residents and the Parish Council have. I understand the Planning Officer will ask them, but do they put what they say high on the list of priorities when they decide the application. I would hope so as they are the people representing the people who may be affected.
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See you learn something new every day :thumbsup: did not know that about the green belt, but as i have always lived in one i thought it applied to all.

The planning will take all views into account but they will decide in the end. As long as your plans are inline with local planning guild lines they have to have a good reason to refuse. My advise is get a good architect and get them to approach the planning with your ideas, (but a good architect will know the planning rules and also be on first name terms with the planning) and ask them to comment on the plans, they should give you feed back on what if anything that needs to be changed before they submit them.

Unfortunately i did not have a good architect when i put my 1st planning in for my dream garage (5 cars wide by 2 cars deep = 10 car spaces with second floor and dormer windows) it got thrown out! When i looking into the reason why i did not stand a chance in getting planning due to the PPG2 and the architect should have know this. I then got involved arranged a meeting on site with the planning lady and she said make it 4 bays and take the dormer windows out and we will pass it and they did :thumbsup:

There is slightly more to this as i have an existing garage / stable block that is 6 meters high that this was replacing, also i have over 1.3 acres of domestic cartilage which i could cover 50% of that in buildings as long as they were not more than 4mtrs high so it was as they call it a “fallback position” but what i am saying it pays to talk to them.
 
Thanks Paul. Seems like great minds think alike. A few weeks ago my planning office approved an extension to a garden to allow a triple bay garage to be built on it. I looked through the documents and found the details of the architect who represented the people who got the permission. I spoke to him and he's going to be the one who submits the plans, albeit he says the elevations etc I've done are fine. Once/if we get planning permission he'll be doing the building regs bit anyway so submitting the plans will just be an added service. My thoughts were the same as yours - he knows them which can't hurt.
 
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Well, I've come the conclusion that there is practically nothing more frustrating in life than dealing with a local planning authority. Our planning office, very kindly, offers a free service whereby you can submit your plans and they can give you a steer to save lots of unnecessary objections. I have submitted the plans, a design and access statement together with complete rationalisation of why this plan is the best option, elevations, they have the lot. The only real problem is going to be the fact that I'm looking to increase my curtilage a bit to allow the build to go ahead. All of my neighbours are totally pro the project.

My question to the planners is will the application be rejected purely on principle and the grounds that it goes over my curtilage border into land I own next to my house (it's partially on each)? They can't say as they have not consulted other parties. Yes, but if other parties don't object, will the planning office itself reject the plan purely because it goes over my official curtilage line? They can't say. I've pointed out that they recently approved a double garage in a nearby village where the garden was extended into a field (mine will be into what was a rough bit of grass and is a smaller extension), cut off another household from the open countryside (mine won't, it'll line up with other property curtilages) who strongly objected to the proposal (my neighbours won't, half of them assisted with coming up with a plan we all like). So given that is it fair to say that, while there may be some aspects of the plan that they will want to look at, the principle itself of a slight extension of the curtilage is not something they will wholly reject the proposal on? They can't say.

They have all the info necessary to answer this one question, which would be the only thing likely to be a stumbling block but they seem totally unable to grasp what I mean when I ask if the 'principle' of an extension of the curtilage will be an issue to them. I am relatively sure it won't be an issue to other parties. Added to which, when I spoke to them it became immediately apparent they hadn't actually read my Design and Access Statement as they kept saying I would need to include things that were central to it.

Frustrated. Oh well, all I can do is submit the application and see what happens. Irritating as the only stumbling block, if there are any, is likely to be them, they have the details but refuse to say whether they themselves would object.
 
Mum and dad applied for planning on land we own (for one house, area of land 1 1/2 acres), and it was rejected on the grounds of ribbon development. 6 months later the head planning guy retired and spoke to dad and said if you want plnning on that ground let me know and ill get it for you. As far as i can see there is no rhyme or reason to there thinming. More like how they feel on the day.

Good luck though
 
mirokujames said:
Mum and dad applied for planning on land we own (for one house, area of land 1 1/2 acres), and it was rejected on the grounds of ribbon development. 6 months later the head planning guy retired and spoke to dad and said if you want plnning on that ground let me know and ill get it for you. As far as i can see there is no rhyme or reason to there thinming. More like how they feel on the day.

Good luck though
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Thanks for that, your story says a lot.

With our planning office they approved an extension to a garden into the countryside to build a garage, blocking in a neighbour and effectively preventing them from having a border onto the fields, even though that neighbour strongly objected to the proposal. 6 months earlier they rejected an application to extend a garden into a small paddock even though it effected no one and was in fact behind a ten foot high hawthorne hedge so no one could even see it, let alone be effected by it. I'm baffled as to how they come to their decisions to be honest.

I obviously didn't expect a judgement without submitting an application but they seem incapable of saying what criterior they even use or if they themselves would object to any particular aspect of a plan. So I guess I'll have to pay 400 odd quid for them to officially look at the same plans I've already given them simply to find out if they object to them. Irritating to say the least.
 
I live in the middle of nowhere...............and as long as my neighbour does not mind, I'm going to put it up anyway.

and if the planners find out - i will deal with it then..

dont want to wind them up too much - esp as I live in the South Downs National Park :shocked: AND an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty :shocked::shocked::shocked:

so clearly not many issues for the planners here then !

:thumbsup:
 
Cheers Mark. Thing is with my plans, my neighbours are all for it, and I know the parish council (who I'm told have a say) pretty well. Anyone who could conceivably have a vested interest or who it could effect likes the idea. The planners have already pointed out that it could effect the outlook from my neighbouring village though ...... what a double garage set against a house of the same design as seen through my small orchard from 1500 metres away ?!? Really ???????
 
planners are a pain in the arse..........get yourself a good consultant - who will be ex planning officers anyway, and normally thats enough to get pp.....
 
markst said:
planners are a pain in the arse..........get yourself a good consultant - who will be ex planning officers anyway, and normally thats enough to get pp.....
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Got one tee'd up for the appeal - he's been recommended as he has an excellent 'strike rate' at getting refusals over-turned. Seen a couple of his cases and he's had the local planning authority looking very silly indeed.
 
Nosevi said:
Got one tee'd up for the appeal - he's been recommended as he has an excellent 'strike rate' at getting refusals over-turned. Seen a couple of his cases and he's had the local planning authority looking very silly indeed.
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excellent - works nearly every time .......

....in my case I'm only putting up a garden shed..
 
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