Boxer
Member
Just finished a new article comparing the 430 Scuderia and 430 Scuderia Spider 16M. http://karenable.com/2018/05/ferrari-430-scuderia-vs-16m/ Comments?
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Scuderia vs. 16M
- Thread starter Boxer
- Start date
Interesting. I’m a fan of open air Ferrari driving, that’s why I went for a 348 ts over a tb, but with a more track focused model I can see the appeal of a hardtop. Here’s a question though, Boxer - if you could only have one supercar as opposed to a collection, would you still choose the Scud over the 16M? If you couldn’t just step into a different spider when the mood took you would the ‘compromises’ of the 16M still outweigh the ability to have open air driving?
sssdu01
Active member
I like the alcantara "carpet"/trim in the 16M footwells, where as the Scud just looks like a mess with the chassis exposed (which has loads of welds etc visible, as I dont suppose the original design thought a carpetless model would be produced ?).
I know Ferrari were going for a track look, but never understood why they didnt offer some trim as an option.
I know Ferrari were going for a track look, but never understood why they didnt offer some trim as an option.
Fluffekins
New member
Nice article and good use of the word appendages. :thumbsup:
Love the look of your 16M.
Love the look of your 16M.
Good article, and nice pic of Mallaig :thumbsup:
Boxer
Member
Tough question, if I could only have one it would probably be the 430 Scuderia on the basis that it is a car Ferrari got so right. In this case, perfection would win over sunshine.
Modificato
Active member
Nice article and a comparison that few would be lucky to be able to make. Compared to say the 360 CS and Speciale the Scud looks a tad undervalued these days to me.
The suspension is identical between the two cars down to the spring colour codes, so given the extra weight of the 16M the effective spring and damper rate from the factory is less i.e. softer than the Scuderia. The exhaust is also the same so it's the Spider/Coupe difference at play there.
It would have been good to have a real world curb weight figure for each. I should imagine there is a reasonable gap between them.
It would have been good to have a real world curb weight figure for each. I should imagine there is a reasonable gap between them.
Thanks.
Boxer
Member
I believe the official figure is 70kg but that is likely using a special "Ferrari" scale
Haha, yes.
Modificato
Active member
Yes Ferrari clearly ‘game’ the system when making these claims. They will claim the track focussed editions weight based on the lightest possible option configuration then compare it to the most bloated and heavily optioned base car. My own experiments plus those of Mark and others too have provided enough evidence of this. The industry has also long held that press cars seem to figure better than customer delivered cars too.
Modificato
Active member
I like to use the word "lie"........
Ah but you forget in Italy if it CAN be true - even in unlikely circumstances - it is not yet a lie.
“Sir the 488 Pista IS 90kg lighter than the standard 488 only not in the configuration being shown nor vs. a 488 gtb that has been sold yet. Also you will have to buy the carbon wheels which are not available yet...but yes it’s of course much much lighter”
So if I trade my fully carbon optioned 488gtb for a Pista I will get a massive power to weight increase?
“Er some, some, yes of course”
:thumbsup:
Modificato
Active member
I am here this week so well used to the culture now.
Tonight we are having a ‘design meeting’ - in a restaurant :grin:
The official design meeting will of course be tomorrow in front of all the many people who have to be seen to have solved the problem and also those who, it will be explained, had no fault in the original howler in the first place...
It will be no-ones fault an Italian genius will file the patent and everyone will be happy and I will get paid.
My colleagues call me ‘the Italian Whisperer’ - I just call it working here on and off since 1989
sssdu01
Active member
I often get the feeling that Italian designers work on bits of the car in isolation and then someone puts the different designs together on the production line ............ some pedals seem to be set up for a single seater. The rear half of the car as a two seater, and a steering wheel that was from a different project so conveniently placed in the perfect position to give you back/arm/shoulder ache.
Why do we love Italian cars ??? :laugh:
Why do we love Italian cars ??? :laugh:
Modificato
Active member
I think we love them precisely because of their imperfections and their raw brute force nature. My co-driver in this years Mille Miglia is an endurance racer of decent pedigree and committed McLaren man. He became so because of poor retail experiences with Porsche and Ferrari. He dresses in typical entrepreneur garb and thus doesn’t fit the watch, shoes, wallet stereotype that they teach you at sales technique class. 2/3rds of the way through the race he said to me “I totally get this car now chris, it’s a living breathing animal of a car and I cannot believe how much hard driving it can take”. I love Ferrari’s precisely for that reason too they are raw, unsophisticated, thinly disguised race car concepts that can take way much more than is usually put their way. The front axle behaviour of my 599 is beyond reason and I pressed my barely tame racing driver about it... “what about it eh? The period journalists suggest it is prone to understeer”. He said to me the only way this car could be made to understeer is if you can’t drive...! He got it so bad he has been found a UK F12 via the factory, confirmed a slot for the 812, and we are off to
Marenello to drive the new challenge car and make some inputs to the 812 special edition. From outright ‘anti’ to hopeless addict in 3,000 miles.
Only Ferrari can generate such emotions.
Yes we know they do this by a variety of means, some as fake as a hookers smile, but we still LOVE them. I am here this week and missing my 430 like crazy. No other car has ever done that to me except a virtually handbuilt Japanese special...
Great article, I've owned my Scuderia for just over a year, I've been down to Le Mans and really enjoyed the car but somehow I feel I haven't really experienced it properly. Reading your comments about the drive in Scotland is encouraging, I'm taking the car across Europe in July and there will plenty of twisty stuff and mountain passes so I am now really looking forward to experiencing the drive!!
Boxer
Member
Exactly