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Thread: 360 F1 Pump Relay - Preventative Maintenance

  1. #51
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    Deano
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    yea think mine was the latter, the test they performed gave it all a clean bill of health - reading your reply makes sense, i just didnt want people thinking they could replace the relay and force the pump to work - but couldn't happen because it would be burnt out (think thats right - i'll shut up now)

  2. #52
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    Aldous Voice
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    Quote Originally Posted by D8EAN View Post
    yea think mine was the latter, the test they performed gave it all a clean bill of health - reading your reply makes sense, i just didnt want people thinking they could replace the relay and force the pump to work - but couldn't happen because it would be burnt out (think thats right - i'll shut up now)
    I understand now! My rationale for changing the relay (and the reason for this thread) is preventative rather than cure.

    If someone is experiencing problems with their F1 system then the first port of call should be the fuse. If that has blown then the reason needs to be determined - either a short at the pump, relay or wiring (highly unlikely). If the fuse is OK then move onto the relay - the only way to test is by changing it for a known working one. If the relay is fine then that leaves the pump. The pump can fail by wearing inside - metal shavings can accumulate and short the circuit. Sometimes they can be opened and cleaned successfully but usually it'll need more remedial work. The pump can burn out completely if the relay has stuck on. The pump is only an impeller attached to a motor - the motor can be rewound just like any other motor. Otherwise it can be replaced with the Alfa one quite cheaply.

  3. #53
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    Ed
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    The main issue here is that the pump has a high current draw that burns the relay, which sticks then totals the pump. If there is any doubt, an sd2 check will show up a suspect pump, the pressure will take longer to build up. If you find your pump takes longer than 9 seconds or so to stop running when you first open the door this also indicates a lazy worn pump. Run up and down the gears with the ignition on and the engine off, and listen to the pump...it should cut in every second or third change. Any more than that, and again, the pump is past it's best. Small leaks in the system will cause the pump to cut in too often and burn the relay/overheat the pump. The black relay shown a couple of posts above, is a common replacement for the troublesome grey one, as it takes a higher load. You have to replace the relay base and make a small wiring change. The alfa/fiat/selespeed pump is a direct replacement and far cheaper, although i always encourage people to fit the 430 pump, it has a much lower current draw and can be substituted with only a minimal change to the bracket on the valve block.

  4. #54
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    x1 zy
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    what modification is required to fit the 430 pump to a 2004 360 Spider?

  5. #55
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    The bracket fits slightly differently to the pump. Remove the rear bumper and drill one small hole to accept the rearmost fixing, it will need packing out with some washers to reach the correct height. Screw the high-pressure steel pipe into the new pump before alignment, you will have to very slightly bend the pipe back a little so that the front two pump mounting holes align. Including removing and refiting the bumper it should take 2-2 and a half hours.

  6. #56
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    Hi All,

    I've recently replaced my relay with a BMW part number 61.36-1393 403 and can confirm it works fine.

    See here http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/show...MW-alternative

    Steve

  7. #57
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    Mike01606 is offline Kid's bed - The Ferrari F50 Club Member
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    Earlier today I swapped the 30A F1 relay in my 2000 car for the later 50A (PN. 233100) version which was fitted as standard to the later cars and CS.

    The early relay looks like this and costs about 40 in the UK. The main issue though is it is a source of unreliability for the early cars as it is worked hard and underrated.

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    The later 50A relay (Red one) is currently about 7 but you need to source and replace the relay base as it is a different 4 pin arrangement and not compatible with the 5 pin base of the early cars.

    I found this relay base one on eBay and took a punt on it which worked as it is the correct base.........

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1409869144...84.m1423.l2649

    Item number 140986914440 which is under a fiver with postage.


    First things first, isolate the battery at the switch in the front boot and remove the cover behind the drivers seat. The relay is located next to the TCU.

    Just press the little tab on the left hand side of the relay base and it will slide off the mounting bar.

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    I popped the top off the relay to have a look at the contacts. You cannot see it in the picture but material was being melted off one contact and deposited on the other. It was definitely on its way out.


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    Prise the relay out of the base and be careful as it I can be quite tight.

    Once removed I checked the resistance of the relay coil which was 50 ohms and the same as the coil resistance of new relay.

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    Next press the square on the side of the relay base and this will (should) release the terminals from the back.

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    Now you are at the point of no return! I removed some of the harness tape and the sticky glue with some solvent then snipped off the 5 terminals.
    I slid a length a heat shrink onto the wires for added protection although it should not be required.

    Pair the wires back then crimp them to the 4 terminals supplied with the base.

    The Grey and Red/Black wires each connect to 9.5mm terminals. Needless to say, these are the power connectors so need to be a really good solid connection.

    The Orange wire connects to a 6.5mm terminal

    The two black wires are both connected to a single 6.5mm terminal (although they are both grounds and go to the same place on the chassis, seems strange to have two connections)

    If you have used it, shrink the sleeving with gentle heat.

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    Next job is to slide the terminals into the corresponding locations on the base. They slide in and click and are a bu$$er to get out, so get it right first time.

    looking at the bottom of the new relay, the terminals are.....

    Grey to terminal 30, +12Vdc fused supply
    Red/Black to terminal 87 - pump 12V feed.
    Black/Black to terminal 85 - earth
    Orange to terminal 86 - Pump run signal from TCU


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    Plug in the new relay.

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    I taped the wires with cloth harness tape for additional protection.

    I then reversed the mounting bar and attached the new relay and base to the side with some 3M VHB tape making sure that the wires are not stressed. Make sure you can install the cover without the relay interfering.

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    Once happy, power up and test. I've driven the car about 50 miles this evening with no issues.

    The whole job took about 20 minutes once I'd checked the manual and cost about a tenner.

    The F1 pump itself is getting a bit lazy so that is the next job. I can easily source the Alfa part but does anyone have a change procedure for it?......
    I read it is self bleeding but want to be sure as I can wait for the MOT when Adam can change it....

  8. #58
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    Snowman
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    Default Direct swap 40A relay upgrade

    I upgraded the 30A relay in my 360 with a 40A relay. It simply plugs in, the pins are the right size and there is no need to change the relay base.

    I used an Aston Martin Vanquish transmission relay (which means it's a Ford branded relay, but they are made by Tyco). This car used the same Tyco V23134-B57-X203 30A relay as the 360 but it was upgraded to a 40A in later service schedules. This 40A relay has just one contact inside unlike the 30A original. Additionally it only has 4 pins but that is not an issue as the F1 pump only needs a SPST relay not a SPDT as the 30A original is (in the 360 the second pole is simply wired to ground).

    Another upside is that it only cost 1.74 from an Aston Martin dealer (from Ford dealers it was close to 30). They are also available on eBay as they are used in various Ford cars.

    The Tyco part number is V23136-81-X66. The Ford part number is 5M5T 14B192 CA. The Aston Martin part number is 1R12-37-10486 (Relay ASM System 40A).

    I have attached some photos of the inside and outside of the relay below.

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    I upgraded the 30A relay in my 360 with a 40A relay. It simply plugs in, the pins are the right size and there is no need to change the relay base.

    I used an Aston Martin Vanquish transmission relay (which means it's a Ford branded relay, but they are made by Tyco). This car used the same Tyco V23134-B57-X203 30A relay as the 360 but it was upgraded to a 40A in later service schedules. This 40A relay has just one contact inside unlike the 30A original. Additionally it only has 4 pins but that is not an issue as the F1 pump only needs a SPST relay not a SPDT as the 30A original is (in the 360 the second pole is simply wired to ground).

    Another upside is that it only cost 1.74 from an Aston Martin dealer (from Ford dealers it was close to 30). They are also available on eBay as they are used in various Ford cars.

    The Tyco part number is V23136-81-X66. The Ford part number is 5M5T 14B192 CA. The Aston Martin part number is 1R12-37-10486 (Relay ASM System 40A).

    I have attached some photos of the inside and outside of the relay below.

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    Can you please confirm that this four pin relay fits without having to change the relay base used by the original five pin relay?

  10. #60
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    Oct 2013
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