348 exhausts

[Nosevi]

Hi all.

After reading a few recent threads I've been thinking about a possible exhaust change next year. Love the sound of my Nouvalari Supersport for a blat through the countryside but in all honesty it's a bit raucous for longer journeys. I want to start using the car a bit more and something with a nice sound yet not quite as deafening might be a good plan.

A valved Capristo might fit the bill - louder when I want it to be but quieter when the situation demands it but does anyone know how good it sounds when open and how much quieter it is when closed? Also, anyone got a clue how much they cost in the UK? There seems to be a massive difference in price between Europe and the US and all I can find in the UK is "Please enquire for price" (which I always find irritating).

Are there any other valved exhausts out there for the 348?

 

[irarref]

"Yellow compass" on fchat are always advertising deals on capristo exhausts and I did enquire a few years back and the prices seemed pretty good.

Valved and unvalved capristos are for sale on ebay too but your looking at about 5k for a valved one.

Have you thought about asking the folk (nouvalari?) who made your existing exhaust how much it would be to add valves to it? The actual valves don't seem that expensive based on example below (not saying it fits etc - just to give you an idea).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261031706327?hash=item3cc6b3bed7:g:x8IAAMXQjWtRLOyK

I imagine it's quite a popular mod to meet track noise regs etc - you could do with having a chat with someone in the racing/modding community

 

[Nosevi]

"Yellow compass" on fchat are always advertising deals on capristo exhausts and I did enquire a few years back and the prices seemed pretty good.

Valved and unvalved capristos are for sale on ebay too but your looking at about 5k for a valved one.

Have you thought about asking the folk (nouvalari?) who made your existing exhaust how much it would be to add valves to it? The actual valves don't seem that expensive based on example below (not saying it fits etc - just to give you an idea).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261031706327?hash=item3cc6b3bed7:g:x8IAAMXQjWtRLOyK

I imagine it's quite a popular mod to meet track noise regs etc - you could do with having a chat with someone in the racing/modding community

Would be great if I could valve the exhaust I've got, didn't think of that. The guys who make them are fairly local to me so will have to ask them if it can be done. Good idea, Jeff.

 

[Nosevi]

Just doing a bit of reading but not sure if I've got this correct - do you need to have a quieter exhaust to start with and the valves just reroute around the sound deadening in the exhaust? So you can't make a loud exhaust quieter using valves, you can only make a quiet exhaust louder? As I say, not sure if I've got that right.

As an aside it looks like valved Capristos are more like £3000 in Europe.

https://tuning-wheels-exhaust.com/exhaust/ferrari-348/

 

[A348W]

Just doing a bit of reading but not sure if I've got this correct - do you need to have a quieter exhaust to start with and the valves just reroute around the sound deadening in the exhaust? So you can't make a loud exhaust quieter using valves, you can only make a quiet exhaust louder? As I say, not sure if I've got that right.

As an aside it looks like valved Capristos are more like £3000 in Europe.

https://tuning-wheels-exhaust.com/exhaust/ferrari-348/

Bet it would be more in the UK...just because. So worth a little "holiday" to Europe? :thumbsup:

I know its not a direct comparison but as a form of comparison I've got a capristo stage 2 on the 355. Playing with the bypass valve is just addictive, and especially enjoyable when you pass any silly little electric car:laugh: Yes I'm juvenile!:tongue3:

As to sound, actually its Ok; louder than the 348 (mines got either a tubi or quicksilver, not sure which). I really don't like loud pipes as they just give me a headache, and cruising on the motorway with the 355 is fine. The boss hasn't even said anything, about the noise, not my driving obviously. So it must be ok!:thumbsup:

 

[irarref]

If you look on the link below it says the valved one is equivalent to the sound 3 (noisiest) but with valves to quieten it down

https://capristoexhaust.com/product-category/ferrari/ferrari-348/

I have a feeling you can fit the valves to any type. If you look the valves its only blocking one set of the pipes not 2 so I assume that set of pipes is the "loud" side

 

[Nosevi]

Thanks both. I don't think I can legitimise stumping up the sort of amount the Capristo would cost in the States, maybe if it as closer to the cost in Europe I'd give it some thought. I'm in no particular hurry but will give it all some thought.

 

[BSM]

Here is my take on how valved exhausts work... The valves traditionally tap in to a vacuum line within the engine bay. The vacuum line to the valve is equipped with a control module/valve which applies & removes the vacuum supply to the exhaust valve. When the vacuum is applied, the valve is closed and when the vacuum is removed the valve opens via a return spring within the valve assembly.

So on to the valves themselves and how they effect the flow of exhaust gasses and silencer function. The physical location of the valves within the system is between the cats and silencer. In essence, all they do is divert the exhaust gasses either through the silencer when they are closed resulting in 'quiet mode' or provide a path of least resistance to the second tail pipe on either side of the exhaust system. This in effect removes the silencer function (for the majority of the exhaust gasses). Some gasses will still pass through the silencer as the pipe remains unaffected by the valves, the exhaust gasses will obviously take the path of least resistance though and head straight out the open tail pipe...

Useful drawings available in the link below to help visualise this.

https://aldousvoice.com/2012/11/16/converting-a-ferrari-f430-exhaust-to-fit-a-360/

Your comments around the philosophy of exhaust valves making quiet exhausts loud is correct Pete. It would not be possible to install valves to an existing loud exhaust system and make it quieter without also installing additional silencers in the system.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

Edit: The F430 system drawing is the easiest to see the philosophy of the valve. The principal of the 360 system is the same I believe, the re-routing of the exhaust gases takes place within the silencer itself which contains a more complex arrangement of chambers and internal link pipes.

 

[Nosevi]

Your comments around the philosophy of exhaust valves making quiet exhausts loud is correct Pete. It would not be possible to install valves to an existing loud exhaust system and make it quieter without also installing additional silencers in the system.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

Cheers Ben. Thought it was along these lines but thanks for clarifying. Looks like a new system would be my only option. As I say, love my system for a blast in the countryside but if I want to start using the car for longer trips I'd want something else.

As an aside, anyone fitted an exhaust to their 348 themselves? Easy? Hard to get to fit? Just bolt on or do you need to seal joins with something? Just wondering how easy switching between them would be if I had 2 systems.

Actually it'd be 3 systems - still got my original twin can system sat in the garage but it sounds seriously unimpressive to my ear and I really want something between the quiet buzz of the old system and the deafening raw of my SuperSport.

 

[irarref]

I've got a feeling the system for the 348 was not as clever as that. If you look at the pic below the only valves are on the exit pipes AFTER the cans.



They did used to sell the valves by themselves so they could be fitted to an already existing exhaust plus there was an option to have manual valves ie adjust with a spanner to switch them on or off - see pic from link below.

https://www.capristo.de/for-348/?lang=en

NB if you look on the link above then click on the controllers there's a link for the instructions. They can be set up with 2 valves (like on a 348) or 4 valves like ben has described for more modern cars.

With regard to changing the exhaust its easy....if the original has been change otherwise everything will be rusted together and have to be cut off etc. Took me ages to remove all the bolts on mine but when I changed it I swapped all teh bolts for stainless and now its a 10 min job to remove the exhaust. The bumper doesn't have to be removed for a capristo but cant comment on other makes. Also, youll need the new doughnut gaskets.


Stainless conversion...

 

[Nosevi]

Cheers Jeff.

Yep, my original exhaust system is sat in my garage with the original cats so bolts shouldn't be an issue.

Another thought I've had is if changing exhausts over is pretty easy - how much of the sound deadening and what feels like flow restriction of the original system is actually in the cats rather than the twin back boxes? Peering into the twin cans you can't see a lot but it doesn't look all that complicated and full of baffles in there but looking at my original cats I'm frankly surprised the exhaust gasses ever got through them, they look extremely restrictive.

After Adrian's comment on another thread about modern high flow cats making very little difference over straight pipes I'm wondering what the old system but with modern high flow cats would sound like?

And for Jeff, if fitting your Capristo didn't require the bumper off can I assume that taking the old system out and so putting it back won't either?

 

[irarref]

yep - all done with the bumper on. I did have the single can oem exhaust as opposed to dual can.

 

[A348W]

My exhaust is off just now for the clutch, its a tubi or quicksilver, not sure which, but takes longer to get the car on axles stands than to take the exhaust off. 8 bolts from memory, 4 to the cats and 4 to the mounting.

Those new donuts are cheapest from superformance, but I'm sure if you hunt around you can find them even cheaper. I've got a set at home waiting to put the clutch back in, so I'll measure them and maybe Jeff's star google searches will find them; I cant believe they are really £8 each! Just don't over tighten them.

 

[BSM]

Just to clarify on the extract below from Jeff's post...

"NB if you look on the link above then click on the controllers there's a link for the instructions. They can be set up with 2 valves (like on a 348) or 4 valves like ben has described for more modern cars."

The modern cars '360-onwards' only have 2 valves to my knowledge. I believe the principle of operation on Valvetronic exhausts remain unchanged...

I'll try and find a photo to help clear this up when i get chance later (currently at work) but the earlier silencers had a 'over complicated/engineered' design which I can only assume was for asthetic purposes only. The re-routing or 'silencer bypass' pipe for the second tail pipe was hidden within the nice shiny aluminium or stainless silencer cladding...

On the later cars (F430-onwards) this 'bypass' pipework is external of the silencer which resulted in the silencer internals requiring less chambers and pipework within which ultimately resulted in the reduction in silencer dimensions and a weight saving too.

 

[Nosevi]

yep - all done with the bumper on. I did have the single can oem exhaust as opposed to dual can.

Cheers Jeff. Difficult to be certain but from the parts diagrams of the two and looking at my car I'd think that if the single can exhaust can be fitted with the bumper on I'd think the dual can one can be too. Only way to find out will be to try I guess.

My exhaust is off just now for the clutch, its a tubi or quicksilver, not sure which, but takes longer to get the car on axles stands than to take the exhaust off. 8 bolts from memory, 4 to the cats and 4 to the mounting.

Those new donuts are cheapest from superformance, but I'm sure if you hunt around you can find them even cheaper. I've got a set at home waiting to put the clutch back in, so I'll measure them and maybe Jeff's star google searches will find them; I cant believe they are really £8 each! Just don't over tighten them.

I'm pretty happy with that price tbh. Think if I go down this route I'll need a bunch of donuts, gaskets, maybe some exhaust bolts etc. as I've got my old twin cans in tact but nothing that attached them to each other or the cats other than the loose bolt plate things (no idea what they're called) which stay on the cans and have the bolts through them to hold the system together.

Just to clarify on the extract below from Jeff's post...

"NB if you look on the link above then click on the controllers there's a link for the instructions. They can be set up with 2 valves (like on a 348) or 4 valves like ben has described for more modern cars."

The modern cars '360-onwards' only have 2 valves to my knowledge. I believe the principle of operation on Valvetronic exhausts remain unchanged...

I'll try and find a photo to help clear this up when i get chance later (currently at work) but the earlier silencers had a 'over complicated/engineered' design which I can only assume was for asthetic purposes only. The re-routing or 'silencer bypass' pipe for the second tail pipe was hidden within the nice shiny aluminium or stainless silencer cladding...

On the later cars (F430-onwards) this 'bypass' pipework is external of the silencer which resulted in the silencer internals requiring less chambers and pipework within which ultimately resulted in the reduction in silencer dimensions and a weight saving too.

Cheers for the info, Ben.

Anyone have an opinion on what the old system but with modern high flow cats is likely to sound like? Don't think I've ever heard of someone de-catting a standard system which I guess would be similar.

 

[Nosevi]

Although thinking that last bit through, some early cars didn't have cats so I guess there are some out there like that.

 

[BSM]

Ferther to my earlier post:

Stock 360 exhaust – you will see that the gases pass from the catalytic converter into the silencer and out through two pipes per side. One pipe each side has a valve on it (circled). This valve is closed at low engine speeds and reduces the noise. Diagram below...

]

F430 / 360CS exhaust(s) - You will see that the gases pass from the catalytic converter and into the tail pipe. There is a valve (circled) on one of the tail pipes. When this valve is closed (low engine speeds) the design of the tail pipe means that the gas is diverted up into the silencer and then out of the other tail pipe. When the valve opens, the gas is allowed to bypass the silencer and vents directly out – this gives the trademark Stradale “bark”. Diagram below...

 

[BSM]

Although thinking that last bit through, some early cars didn't have cats so I guess there are some out there like that.

I imagine you would retain a mostly stock sound replacing the stock cats with sports cats. Decat would likely alter the stock sound a little. Each option would assist the having its voice heard.

I guess taking a punt on either would be a cheaper option than purchasing another silencer. If the desired result isn't achieved you could always revert to the idea of upgrading to a valvetronic setup and sell both your recently purchased cats or decat pipes and the Supersport silencer to offset some of the cost...

I cant imagine your Supersport silencer or the new sports cats / decay pipes causing many headaches to sell on for a decent price via fleabay or the forum Pete.

 

[Nosevi]

I imagine you would retain a mostly stock sound replacing the stock cats with sports cats. Decat would likely alter the stock sound a little. Each option would assist the having its voice heard.

I guess taking a punt on either would be a cheaper option than purchasing another silencer. If the desired result isn't achieved you could always revert to the idea of upgrading to a valvetronic setup and sell both your recently purchased cats or decat pipes and the Supersport silencer to offset some of the cost...

I cant imagine your Supersport silencer or the new sports cats / decay pipes causing many headaches to sell on for a decent price via fleabay or the forum Pete.

Yep, I might give it a go with my current high flow cats but OEM exhaust to see what it sounds like as it's pretty close to a no cost option and will provide some winter tinkering.

Just been chatting to a mate who used to sell and fit exhausts, albeit to bikes, and he's going to endoscope my old system so we can have good look at the internals. It was working perfectly when it was taken off but might as well give it a once over to be sure it's still fine inside. Also going to send it to get cleaned up - the same mate knows a guy who does vapour blasting (think it's called) as well as other kinds of blasting and cleaning which I've wanted to get done to the old system anyway as it's showing it's age a bit. All in all giving it a go won't actually cost that much and if it ends up sounding no different from OEM exhaust with OEM cats which was a bit underwhelming I've lost nothing and can think again about alternatives.

 

[BSM]

Yep, I might give it a go with my current high flow cats but OEM exhaust to see what it sounds like as it's pretty close to a no cost option and will provide some winter tinkering.

Just been chatting to a mate who used to sell and fit exhausts, albeit to bikes, and he's going to endoscope my old system so we can have good look at the internals. It was working perfectly when it was taken off but might as well give it a once over to be sure it's still fine inside. Also going to send it to get cleaned up - the same mate knows a guy who does vapour blasting (think it's called) as well as other kinds of blasting and cleaning which I've wanted to get done to the old system anyway as it's showing it's age a bit. All in all giving it a go won't actually cost that much and if it ends up sounding no different from OEM exhaust with OEM cats which was a bit underwhelming I've lost nothing and can think again about alternatives.

I'm sure the sound level with sports cats will be much improved over OEM cats and Silencer. As you say, as a low cost initial option it would seem a no brainer as a starting point... If that doesn't quite hit the mark and is too quiet, a set of decat pipes would be the next logical option and much less outlay that heading down the new silencer route...

Looking forward to hearing how you get on working through this journey Pete :thumbsup: