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Mark's 360 F1

Mark Blanchard said:
I took some shots of the car yesterday. Updated my website with the pictures.

https://www.lotusespritturbo.com/Ferrari_360.htm

I'm starting to get the hang of the paddle shift / F1 gearbox, having never used them before I can't say it's comes naturally. Down shifting to a junction still feels strange. A normal manual would have been preferable, but price wise that wasn't an option.
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Car looks great :thumbsup:

I've always been one for full manual gearboxes but my guess is the F1 will grow on you over time as you get more used to it. Mush as I love my open gated 348 I think if I swapped her for a 360 I'd be tempted to go to F1. I think if you're going from what is a very 'old-school' mechanical feeling and unassisted car like the 348 to a modern, far more capable car like the 360 you sort of might as well embrace that and go the whole hog if that makes sense.

As an aside I do think the term 'old-school' gets banded around far too much. An 'old-school' Ferrari is pretty cantankerous at times, not always overly reliable, can be tricky to drive even when it really shouldn't be and the build quality is 'questionable'. Saw a video recently where a 599 GTO was described as the last 'old-school' Ferrari. Didn't half make me laugh.
 
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Mark Blanchard said:
I'm starting to get the hang of the paddle shift / F1 gearbox, having never used them before I can't say it's comes naturally. Down shifting to a junction still feels strange.
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I don't understand, it's exactly the same as a manual in this respect. The only difference is keeping both hands on the wheel and not needing to move your left foot!
 
I'm just not used to paddles, as Nosevi said I'll get used to it. And the clutch is slow when cold, first gear I have to wait for it to kick in, usually a second or two at junctions. It shifts ok when warmed up.
 
Kyodo said:
I don't understand, it's exactly the same as a manual in this respect. The only difference is keeping both hands on the wheel and not needing to move your left foot!
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It is a manual! I do wish people would stop thinking of them as automatics! :wink3:

Depending on how you're driving I do think it would be a little different. Can't really see the point of heel and toeing and rev matching with an F1 box.
 
Modificato said:
Indeed - it is an automated manual which you can shift by paddles or let the software do it for you.
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So it’s actually sort of a semi-manual OR full automatic depending on how you choose to use it at the time. If the software chooses when to shift then shifts for you that’s pretty much not manual at all. So you could argue best of both worlds?

(My comment previously was just a tongue in cheek jab at Mark who hates people calling F1 equipped cars “automatics” :grin: )
 
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You can't think of them as being 'automatic' in the traditional sense though. There's no torque convertor, no rising of revs whilst you wait for the speed to catch up. My comment to Mark B purely related to the downshift towards a junction or island. In a three pedal car you move a stick, in the F1 you move a paddle.

I don't hate everyone Pete, just you :tongue3: :wink3:

But yes, take off from a standstill can be sluggish, especially when the car is cold. Some people say be more aggressive on the throttle but my fear has always been making a lot of noise before finding yourself stuck in the rear of someone else's car. When you say the clutch is slow, do you mean it engages slower than you'd like when you start to move, slipping more than you'd expect?

ps. I think they only added the 'auto' button for the US market :laugh:
 
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Kyodo said:
When you say the clutch is slow, do you mean it engages slower than you'd like when you start to move, slipping more than you'd expect?
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Yes, slower than I'd like. It takes 1-2 sec to engage first when cold at a junction. When the gearbox oil is warm, first gear engages quickly. The box was rebuilt 7k miles ago and it's been looked after by Dick Lovett for the last 8 years with no issues.

I've read some F1 boxes are slow, some are faster. And I hear Ferrari made improvements to the F1 box for the 360CS.

Yes there's an auto switch on the central console. Really can't see the point in having an automatic Ferrari, unless you aren't into driving and have a Ferrari to "turn up in style." :thumbsdow
 
For what it's worth Mark, our 2000 F1 engages first straight away, cold or not. I've found the only negative with the F1 system is that it feeds the clutch in slower than I'd like when pulling away in first although that can be adjusted on the later TCUs to some degree. Our car has the Challenge Stradale TCU fitted but from memory I don't recall the box being hesitant to select a gear when fitted with its original unit either.
 
Kyodo said:
I've found the only negative with the F1 system is that it feeds the clutch in slower than I'd like when pulling away in first.
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Sounds similar to mine. I’m not giving it lots of throttle when I pull away from my house as the car makes so much noise (Tubi exhaust) I’m trying not to irritate the many neighbours where I live. Maybe more throttle is needed though.
 
Mark Blanchard said:
Sounds similar to mine. I’m not giving it lots of throttle when I pull away from my house as the car makes so much noise (Tubi exhaust) I’m trying not to irritate the many neighbours where I live. Maybe more throttle is needed though.
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I agree, definitely more throttle needed.......... then they'll all get used to the racket it makes. I have no idea if more throttle will also help the F1 system but it might. :)
 
Mark Blanchard said:
I'm just not used to paddles, as Nosevi said I'll get used to it. And the clutch is slow when cold, first gear I have to wait for it to kick in, usually a second or two at junctions. It shifts ok when warmed up.
Click to expand...

Mark Blanchard said:
Yes, slower than I'd like. It takes 1-2 sec to engage first when cold at a junction. When the gearbox oil is warm, first gear engages quickly. The box was rebuilt 7k miles ago and it's been looked after by Dick Lovett for the last 8 years with no issues.

I've read some F1 boxes are slow, some are faster. And I hear Ferrari made improvements to the F1 box for the 360CS.

Yes there's an auto switch on the central console. Really can't see the point in having an automatic Ferrari, unless you aren't into driving and have a Ferrari to "turn up in style." :thumbsdow
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If there’s a extended delay selecting I think there’s a minor issue.
The clutch is open when the engine is running so pulling the paddle it should quickly select the gear. I never felt mine was hesitant but you might expect different. I’d try to see another.
If real it could be anything, so I won’t guess on here.

I had the original TCU in mine and it drove great. I lashed out on a new CS TCU and it generally improved it but I also felt it was minimal and lost some smoothness.
The selection delay you mention will unlikely be improved by a CS TCU. The CS TCU changes the calibration for gear changes and clutch control. The CS box and external controls are identical to the earlier cars. It’s all hardware/software differences.
When cold F1 generally rev higher at the bite point pulling away, pretty much as you would do in any car.
 
It’s strange because there is no delay selecting first around town, it’s instant. I recon more throttle is needed when I set off.

I’m still getting the hang of the car. It’s early days.
 
Mike01606 said:
If there’s a extended delay selecting I think there’s a minor issue.
The clutch is open when the engine is running so pulling the paddle it should quickly select the gear. I never felt mine was hesitant but you might expect different. I’d try to see another.
If real it could be anything, so I won’t guess on here.

I had the original TCU in mine and it drove great. I lashed out on a new CS TCU and it generally improved it but I also felt it was minimal and lost some smoothness.
The selection delay you mention will unlikely be improved by a CS TCU. The CS TCU changes the calibration for gear changes and clutch control. The CS box and external controls are identical to the earlier cars. It’s all hardware/software differences.
When cold F1 generally rev higher at the bite point pulling away, pretty much as you would do in any car.
Click to expand...

All of this can be helped and in many cases avoid expensive degradation by performing a gearbox self-learn - These should be performed at service but rarely are (why give up on all those nice valuable clutch change jobs eh?)

Its the marelli selespeed system as used in Alfa's so not expensive or time consuming to do (and takes zero spanner work)

Thankfully this procedure is now within reach of the DIY fraternity with the right handheld device, dongle and software

18mins in - whole procedure takes 2 mins - rest of the video and its series covers 360 F1 in great depth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrXL9VrPHvE
 
Modificato said:
All of this can be helped and in many cases avoid expensive degradation by performing a gearbox self-learn - These should be performed at service but rarely are (why give up on all those nice valuable clutch change jobs eh?)

Its the marelli selespeed system as used in Alfa's so not expensive or time consuming to do (and takes zero spanner work)

Thankfully this procedure is now within reach of the DIY fraternity with the right handheld device, dongle and software

18mins in - whole procedure takes 2 mins - rest of the video and its series covers 360 F1 in great depth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrXL9VrPHvE
Click to expand...

I have the same set-up (in fact the one in the video was mine).
You can see at lot of what is going on with the selection process such as coordinates for the gear positions and stored codes (failure to select etc) which will not give a warning.
My only comment would be be careful with these systems as well as being quite powerful and very useful they are also effectively pirated software with quite a few bugs (probably due to porting to an app).
They just about work on the 360 F1 but only with the CS (and maybe latest non-CS) TCU. The better coverage is 430 onwards.
 
Mike01606 said:
I have the same set-up (in fact the one in the video was mine).
You can see at lot of what is going on with the selection process such as coordinates for the gear positions and stored codes (failure to select etc) which will not give a warning.
My only comment would be be careful with these systems as well as being quite powerful and very useful they are also effectively pirated software with quite a few bugs (probably due to porting to an app).
They just about work on the 360 F1 but only with the CS (and maybe latest non-CS) TCU. The better coverage is 430 onwards.
Click to expand...

Mike is this the Think / Launch X431 Android tablet thing with pre-loaded software?
 
It was the Launch Xdiag 431 software on an Android tablet with the yellow dongle. But yes, it’s effectively the same system.
For the 360 to work, you have to enter 430 into the Tipo menu. That’s why it only worked on the CS TCU at the time as it used the same later hardware.

It was probably the best £150 I spent on the car. I still have it but the annual
updates have now run out.
It was a bit of a pain as on a later update it would only work with one engine ECU, but worked better with the gearbox. It meant you had to keep rolling software versions backwards and forwards depending on what you were doing!
 
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Went for a proper run today, the car drove perfectly. I'm finally getting the hang of the F1 box at last.

Stopped off at Hofmann's of Henley. They're a well respected garage and have some amazing cars being serviced. Ex Sultan of Brunei cars amongst others. Some of them I've recognised from working in Brunei back in the 1990s.

Hofmanns 2.jpg
 
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