Bell Sport and Classic - anyone used for servicing?

[Nosevi]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has used Bell Sport and Classic for servicing? Just looking at options a little further afield than my local places if I decide not to do it myself. Either post or PM thoughts would be great if you’ve used them before or know others who have. Cheers.

 

[cgt]

They have Attilio who alongside Ed Blasi is one of the two best Ferrari techs in the country IMO, he was HR Owen's head tech for years and predictably they went downhill when he left.

He has huge Ferrari knowledge and had my last 550 running better than any other I have driven. Big thumbs up from me.

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[Nosevi]

They have Attilio who alongside Ed Blasi is one of the two best Ferrari techs in the country IMO, he was HR Owen's head tech for years and predictably they went downhill when he left.

He has huge Ferrari knowledge and had my last 550 running better than any other I have driven. Big thumbs up from me.

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Cheers Faisal, much appreciated. It’s a trek from up here but it might be worth the extra miles

 

[cgt]

Cheers Faisal, much appreciated. It’s a trek from up here but it might be worth the extra miles

I used to drive to Garage Francorchamps in the days when there weren't many good specialists around so it's nearer than that!

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[irarref]

What's wrong with your current place? I thought you had a good relationship with them????

 

[Nosevi]

I used to drive to Garage Francorchamps in the days when there weren't many good specialists around so it's nearer than that!

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Very true. Thing is I may not be in a position to drive her there and collect later (10 hours driving for me and 5 hours for whoever gives me a lift home then back from Bell in all) and may need to get her shipped. For an annual that may make the cost a bit more than it's sensible for me to spend. For an engine out major it may make more sense but for an annual I may end up at my Main Dealer which will cost significantly less.

What's wrong with your current place? I thought you had a good relationship with them????

My last engine out belt change came to a little more than expected due to unavoidable breakages during the service ie things that were not broken before, refusing to come out and braking when they tried. It ended up costing...….. just think of a number and then double it

You have mail...….. (or are about to).

 

[cgt]

It's worth staying over which is what I did in Belgium, I also used to take my older Porsches to Hartech which was similar but going north. For the right level of work the cost of a hotel is negligible. Particularly on Ferraris it's all about the expertise of the person doing the work and peace of mind is all.

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[francisn]

It's worth staying over which is what I did in Belgium, I also used to take my older Porsches to Hartech which was similar but going north. For the right level of work the cost of a hotel is negligible. Particularly on Ferraris it's all about the expertise of the person doing the work and peace of mind is all.



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Absolutely. Whoever you use, your trust in what they do is the paramount. We all have our favourites, but if you don't have total trust in them you should find someone else.

 

[Nosevi]

Absolutely. Whoever you use, your trust in what they do is the paramount. We all have our favourites, but if you don't have total trust in them you should find someone else.

Couldn’t agree more, Francis.

 

[Carlo348]

"My last engine out belt change came to a little more than expected due to unavoidable breakages during the service ie things that were not broken before, refusing to come out and braking when they tried. ...."

Pete, this can happen at any of the specialists unfortunately, it's the age of the cars now and certain parts are prone to issues. I had the oil pipe to the oil radiator refuse to budge, when it did, it sheared off at the rad, resulting in a new oil radiator and pipe.££££. A bolt on a lower arm wouldn't budge on suspension overhaul...resulted in a.replacement lower arm. If theres other issues then fair enough, but thesecars are at an age where, an engine out service, isn't just an engine out service. Unless you've replaced everything[emoji3]



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[Nosevi]

Pete, this can happen at any of the specialists unfortunately, it's the age of the cars now and certain parts are prone to issues. I had the oil pipe to the oil radiator refuse to budge, when it did, it sheared off at the rad, resulting in a new oil radiator and pipe.££££. A bolt on a lower arm wouldn't budge on suspension overhaul...resulted in a.replacement lower arm. If theres other issues then fair enough, but thesecars are at an age where, an engine out service, isn't just an engine out service. Unless you've replaced everything[emoji3]

There were some broken parts plus other issues. My upcoming annual will include items you would expect to be done during a major (based on the fact they are in the service schedule) but which weren’t. My fault for not specifying I expected them to do everything in the service schedule? Perhaps. But I’ve never had to at my main dealer, it’s simply been done.

I’ve had both annual services and majors performed by an indie and annuals and majors performed by a main dealer. On every occasion the indie has estimated lower than the main dealer has quoted (one estimates, one quotes) and yet the main dealer has always, and I do mean always, cost less. There has a couple of times been issues at the main dealer but when there has been they’ve always absorbed the cost themselves, not so for the indie who I guess can’t afford to. I bear no grudge but the truth is I can’t afford to continue to pay substantially more at an indie than I pay at a main dealer. Why should I?

 

[Carlo348]

I now see your issue. You are absolutely right in what you should expect, otherwise indies under that scenario will disappear. Fortunately, most are not like that. Sorry you've had issues and quite rightly you shouldnt have. I know my indie are not the cheapest, but I cannot fault their work But they're cheaper than the local ferrari dealership in the New forest, and I would say have a better and superior knowledge of the 348.Their work has been excellent and the cost labour wise, I paid more per hour for my Audi. Parts have mostly been ferrari influenced. However they are more flexible on better components. (Hills bearings,uprated bushes,sports radiators, specialist fuel pipes)Ferrarari dealers not so. I guess if my costs were not as expected and like yours, I would no doubt be doing the same. When an indies cost is more than a main dealer why bother? I see no business sense long term, apart from oem components. Unless someone can say otherwise. I know there are a couple of specialists that are up there and trade based on servicing and maintaining the earliest and rarest of all models which is at a premium. 348 is not. If a price is set, the work done is what's priced theres no reason for it being over. Unforeseen problems shouldn't be charged at excessive costs, and in line with what they are charging for the rest.

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[Nosevi]

I now see your issue. You are absolutely right in what you should expect, otherwise indies under that scenario will disappear. Fortunately, most are not like that. Sorry you've had issues and quite rightly you shouldnt have. I know my indie are not the cheapest, but I cannot fault their work But they're cheaper than the local ferrari dealership in the New forest, and I would say have a better and superior knowledge of the 348.Their work has been excellent and the cost labour wise, I paid more per hour for my Audi. Parts have mostly been ferrari influenced. However they are more flexible on better components. (Hills bearings,uprated bushes,sports radiators, specialist fuel pipes)Ferrarari dealers not so. I guess if my costs were not as expected and like yours, I would no doubt be doing the same. When an indies cost is more than a main dealer why bother? I see no business sense long term, apart from oem components. Unless someone can say otherwise. I know there are a couple of specialists that are up there and trade based on servicing and maintaining the earliest and rarest of all models which is at a premium. 348 is not. If a price is set, the work done is what's priced theres no reason for it being over. Unforeseen problems shouldn't be charged at excessive costs, and in line with what they are charging for the rest.

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I can say otherwise - My main dealer has fit Hills bearings and a couple of other minor non-standard parts when I have asked them to. My point was the non-OEM part was superior, they agreed and fit it in place of the OEM part. That was with a service manager who has now moved on but I'm assuming they still will if I ask them to.

The guy at my main dealer who did my last engine out there won Ferrari technician of the year in Maranello shortly before - it's a worldwide annual competition in Italy for Ferrari mechanics where they are tested on all cars from the latest modern cars right back to the classics. While you can't be sure who you'll get working on your car at a main dealer I was pretty sure he knew what he was doing. The guy's name is Dean Pallett and last I heard he had moved off the shop floor and was now the service manager so should oversee work done if it's by a technician with less experience on older cars. I'm not sure that's very different to one of the bigger indies who have a mix of younger guys with less experience but guys with more experience overseeing them.

In fact here's an article about him wining the award - https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/20...obal-ferrari-technician-challenge-2011/42361/

Anyway, I think there's positives and negatives across the indies and main dealer network. I'll be honest, I used the indie I used because I liked the people. But they have to offer something the main dealers can't if they want to survive. At the point they end up being more expensive and don't offer a better service they cease to be a sensible option.

From what I've seen Bell Sport and Classic do offer something above your average main dealer. Were this for something a bit more involved than an annual (plus a couple of items missed off the last major) I might well go that route. But I'll be honest, given the service being done this time, I'd do it myself if it wasn't for service history. Taking into consideration shipping cost, using Bell for this annual rather than my main dealer just down the road will add £500 to the bill. Come time for the next engine out belt change I'll look seriously into using them though - they look like they've got a great setup there.

 

[Ian355]

I can say otherwise - My main dealer has fit Hills bearings and a couple of other minor non-standard parts when I have asked them to. My point was the non-OEM part was superior, they agreed and fit it in place of the OEM part. That was with a service manager who has now moved on but I'm assuming they still will if I ask them to.

The guy at my main dealer who did my last engine out there won Ferrari technician of the year in Maranello shortly before - it's a worldwide annual competition in Italy for Ferrari mechanics where they are tested on all cars from the latest modern cars right back to the classics. While you can't be sure who you'll get working on your car at a main dealer I was pretty sure he knew what he was doing. The guy's name is Dean Pallett and last I heard he had moved off the shop floor and was now the service manager so should oversee work done if it's by a technician with less experience on older cars. I'm not sure that's very different to one of the bigger indies who have a mix of younger guys with less experience but guys with more experience overseeing them.

In fact here's an article about him wining the award - https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/20...obal-ferrari-technician-challenge-2011/42361/

Anyway, I think there's positives and negatives across the indies and main dealer network. I'll be honest, I used the indie I used because I liked the people. But they have to offer something the main dealers can't if they want to survive. At the point they end up being more expensive and don't offer a better service they cease to be a sensible option.

From what I've seen Bell Sport and Classic do offer something above your average main dealer. Were this for something a bit more involved than an annual (plus a couple of items missed off the last major) I might well go that route. But I'll be honest, given the service being done this time, I'd do it myself if it wasn't for service history. Taking into consideration shipping cost, using Bell for this annual rather than my main dealer just down the road will add £500 to the bill. Come time for the next engine out belt change I'll look seriously into using them though - they look like they've got a great setup there.

I can also confirm that my main dealer is also quite flexible parts wise and very reasonable for labour. Probably only on the older cars though as they do help support the owners running these cars now.

 

[Jez Moore]

"My last engine out belt change came to a little more than expected due to unavoidable breakages during the service ie things that were not broken before, refusing to come out and braking when they tried. ...."

Pete, this can happen at any of the specialists unfortunately, it's the age of the cars now and certain parts are prone to issues. I had the oil pipe to the oil radiator refuse to budge, when it did, it sheared off at the rad, resulting in a new oil radiator and pipe.££££. A bolt on a lower arm wouldn't budge on suspension overhaul...resulted in a.replacement lower arm. If theres other issues then fair enough, but thesecars are at an age where, an engine out service, isn't just an engine out service. Unless you've replaced everything[emoji3]



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Not been on CS for a while just looked in. My last engine out major and belt change on the 355 was horrendous, painted cam covers, engine and gearbox mounts, radiator replaced, new cooling fan and then all the suspension bushes.

 

[Carper]

I have moved my 355 of 10 years ownership on now. When i had it i always used Indies for major and main dealer for minor. Was very surprised when in 2018 i was in discussion with the main dealer who told me that their default action for a cam belt change was to do it engine IN ..... I did ask him to repeat it, and he said that was "factory recommendation nowadays". Any body else heard the same from main dealer ( this was Lancaster Colchester btw ) ?

 

[Nosevi]

I have moved my 355 of 10 years ownership on now. When i had it i always used Indies for major and main dealer for minor. Was very surprised when in 2018 i was in discussion with the main dealer who told me that their default action for a cam belt change was to do it engine IN ..... I did ask him to repeat it, and he said that was "factory recommendation nowadays". Any body else heard the same from main dealer ( this was Lancaster Colchester btw ) ?

Nope, the complete opposite from my main dealer - said it should always be done with the engine removed and this is how they did it when they did a belt change on my car. Pretty sure they were talking nonsense re the factory now recommending it being done engine in. If that was the case all the main dealers would be doing that, in particular the guy who did mine who had just returned from winning Ferrari tech of the year at the factory. As I say, think they were 'mistaken'.

Think your idea of main dealer for minors, well respected indie for majors has merit, particularly if you have a main dealer on your doorstep but not a top indie. At the end of the day you really need experience with a major service, not sure how much you really need for an annual though. Some perhaps, but not nearly as much as for an engine out.

 

[A348W]

Last year when I was chatting to Migliore, they said they did engine in as their preferred method as it was a bit quicker than engine out, but if you preferred they would go engine out.

There is enough info out there to show it can be done, but ive not heard/seen anything that it’s advised by Ferrari.

I get the relative pros and cons of both but as discussed on the other thread if you are paying all that money you might as well do it in the normal way so you don’t put off any future potential punters! We know how fickle we can be :laugh:

 

[Carper]

Think your idea of main dealer for minors, well respected indie for majors has merit, particularly if you have a main dealer on your doorstep but not a top indie. At the end of the day you really need experience with a major service, not sure how much you really need for an annual though. Some perhaps, but not nearly as much as for an engine out.

100% .... i was not going to drive 80 miles each way for a simple oil change but when it came to engine out ( i had 3 in my ownership) i always made that trip as the technician who worked on my car at the indie had many years of 355 experience and had an almost OCD attention to detail.

I always booked an overnight hotel as well so i could go back the next day to see the engine and rear axle on the floor and make informed decisions about anything else that was worth doing whilst it was out :thumbsup:

Biggest bill i had was £3600ish which was cam belts, tensioners, oil radiator and AC pump + crackle red painting of engine covers.

 

[Nosevi]

Biggest bill i had was £3600ish which was cam belts, tensioners, oil radiator and AC pump + crackle red painting of engine covers.

I’d say £3600 for that seems quite reasonable. The last engine out I had cost significantly more and was for a standard engine out with just water pump replacement (Hills tensions had gone in on the last engine out)........ then things went a bit wrong and the bill started ticking up.