The Italian Job (Italians attempting to fine the British)

[MalcH]

I'm hoping somebody may have some advice.

Myself and Joanne had a hire car (as we usually do) in Italy in July 2015. Later in September the same year I had a letter from the hire company telling me they had taken €40 off my credit card to pass my details to local authorities (this is quite normal). Money paid. Two months later two more arrive and a total now of €120 for three.

I looked into it and it seems the Italians unlike say Germany have 12 months (360 days actually) to notify you of the offence after they have sourced your details which in my case was September 2015.
So yesterday I get a letter from an Italian solicitors requesting a (small) sum of money for a traffic offence. Now the fine is nothing at all (less than €20) and I should just pay it but I am thinking as they have missed their deadline of 360 days by about 7-8 months I should perhaps challenge it. The reason being the other two fines may well be speeding and they could add up to €300.
Not a lot but to contest/appeal those could then elevate the fine to €600 which hurts a bit.

As a guinea pig if this offence doubles because they ignored an appeal or a refusal to pay it would only be €40.

So has anyone ever had similar from Italy? Am I being a tight arse and should I just shut the .... up and pay? If they had notified me within the 360 days I would of course have just paid. To add to that I actually like Italy and the Italians and we go there regularly.

Thoughts please.

 

[MalcH]

An update...
http://www.euroconsumatori.org/82058d82507.html

My 20 Euro fine was for a toll I did not pay. IIRC I entered by mistake into a TelePass lane and could not reverse. Mrs remembers this.
According to that link they have a 5 years sanction. I guess its a payment for a service rather than a fine. I have paid it and now await for the other two motoring violations.

 

[Mike01606]

Malc,

If it were me I'd pay the small fine as it just isn't worth it.
If the other's came through the same I'd pay them also. If they were significant I'd challenge them then.
Can you call the solicitor and ask about the time delay?

M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MalcH]

Malc,

If it were me I'd pay the small fine as it just isn't worth it.
If the other's came through the same I'd pay them also. If they were significant I'd challenge them then.
Can you call the solicitor and ask about the time delay?

M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheers Mike, I paid the small one. My original idea being to use it as a test bed. However it is not so much a fine as a payment for services.
The other two are different. This one was sent on behalf of Autostrada SPA (Motorway Company). The other two were Comune Di Terni and Comune Di Minturno (I have emails from the car hire company). The latter being two local councils/communities. None seem to be police who I would expect for a speeding fine. Parking or city exclusion zones perhaps (ZTL).

After all it was Fiat 500 that struggled to do 100km/h mostly :laugh:

 

[milkshaker0007]

An update...
http://www.euroconsumatori.org/82058d82507.html

My 20 Euro fine was for a toll I did not pay. IIRC I entered by mistake into a TelePass lane and could not reverse. Mrs remembers this.
According to that link they have a 5 years sanction. I guess its a payment for a service rather than a fine. I have paid it and now await for the other two motoring violations.

Malc
When we have hired a car in Europe in the past, it has an electronic tag by the rear view mirror and we were asked by the hire firm if we would be using the motorway/tolls and if so they activate it for you to your credit card, so hassle free motoring, just pay what the credit card bill is next month.
I take it they didn't offer this to you as major hire companies all have these now a days for the toll roads.

 

[achaddy]

A few years ago we had a hire car in Tuscany and on a trip to Florence we were forced down a slip road on the inner ring road which took us into the inner town limit. We were only there fo 2 minuts and about 100 mtrs as we turned around but too late. Our number plate had been caught on camera.

About 3 months later a fine came throught the post, I think it was about 50 euros but I ignored it:shakeass2. Nothing for year and another one came through and it had doubled. Again I ignored it. They cant touch me:grin:

Then last July, probably another year later I get another from the Italian Police demanding 178 euros for non payment of fine:shocked: Now, we were going to Italy again in the 360 in September and the missus got paranoid that I was at risk of being arrested if we were stopped in Italy and demanded I paid the fine. So I grudgingly did so

 

[ronrob]

If the traffic offence (unintended, I know) happens in the UK, don't you just stump up immediately? If so, why should it be any different when you make the mistake abroad?

 

[francisn]

If the traffic offence (unintended, I know) happens in the UK, don't you just stump up immediately? If so, why should it be any different when you make the mistake abroad?

+1

 

[Leightonv8]

Cheers Mike, I paid the small one. My original idea being to use it as a test bed. However it is not so much a fine as a payment for services.
The other two are different. This one was sent on behalf of Autostrada SPA (Motorway Company). The other two were Comune Di Terni and Comune Di Minturno (I have emails from the car hire company). The latter being two local councils/communities. None seem to be police who I would expect for a speeding fine. Parking or city exclusion zones perhaps (ZTL).

After all it was Fiat 500 that struggled to do 100km/h mostly :laugh:

Hi Malc ..

This is flipping uncanny ,,, only yesterday i received a fine for a supposed non payment of a motorway toll from June 2015 .. I was definitely in Italy during that time driving a hire van for the Italian Marathon HERO rally .. I was on motorways on some stages , but i know that all the tolls were paid as i had to wait for the barriers to go up before driving through . I did however pay this supposed non payment as it was only 6.76 Euro !!! Didnt think it was worth the hassle and time for 6.76 Euro .... still amazed they took 2 years to chase 6.76 , it probably cost them more in paperwork and time ..

Hope to meet up on Epynt again one day !!!! :grin:

 

[JohnGTC]

Italy is a bit of a mystery for me.

In Bologna I found the hotel and was directed down a side street for about 100 metres to their garage, No prohibition signs and this was obviously the hotel's usual instruction, About two months later I got a letter from Hertz, enclosing 3 police tickets, saying that they had deducted the sum demanded by the Police from my Amex card. The forms seemed to say that I had contavened a 'No Entry' on 3 separate occassions (ie each time I entered the garage).

A friend has just returned from the same region and, lo and behold, he get 3 charges. He could not identify his repeated error although he was quite familiar with the area.

I have to wonder whether this is an officially sanctioned scam. The sums were not great but given the general standard of city driving in Italy I was miffed to be charged for a trivial manoeuvre that inconvenieced no one. And, of course, the hire company pays up and makes a deduction, so an appeal is almost impossible. Do the locals pay in these circumstances or a hire cars s soft target?

I can't help thinking that the average British copper would have just 'had a word' but who knows with the universal installation of CCTV?

 

[geoffpfc]

Not a scam?

It may not be a scam but certainly seems a bit of a "rip-off":thumbsdow

Article 201 of the Italian Road Traffic Code ("Nuovo codice della strada", D. Lgs. 30 april 1992 n. 285 and subsequent amendments) states that: "For residents abroad, the fine must be notified within 360 days from the infraction".

The problem is that many city administration and local police bodies have outsourced the fine notification and collection service to private companies, who send the notifications regardless of the time of the offense in the hope that the receiving party will pay up anyway.

You could be magnanimous and pay the money to a country which is in deep financial distress:cry3:

 

[MalcH]

If the traffic offence (unintended, I know) happens in the UK, don't you just stump up immediately? If so, why should it be any different when you make the mistake abroad?

+1

I've paid this one as mentioned because it was not actually a fine. Very good of them in all seriousness considering it may have looked like I tried to avoid paying.

However the other two may well be congestion zone charges. First of all they're not very clear when you enter them from what I have read. I'm not sure what they are because they do looking at the emails I got in December 2015, look like local council fines which makes me think restricted zone?
I genuinely believed in January this year that perhaps the hire car company were just taking another 80 Euros because who is going to question it? Still might be!

Secondly as Geoff points out above they have 360 days, some 9 months longer than other countries (Germany limit themselves to three months for example) to issue the fine. Clearly they had until December (tell you what let's give them a month for it to get through the office systems that's January this year). I have not received them so if they can't be arsed to abide by their own laws then why should I?

If they would have fined me on the day I would indeed have paid.

Malc
When we have hired a car in Europe in the past, it has an electronic tag by the rear view mirror and we were asked by the hire firm if we would be using the motorway/tolls and if so they activate it for you to your credit card, so hassle free motoring, just pay what the credit card bill is next month.
I take it they didn't offer this to you as major hire companies all have these now a days for the toll roads.

I don't recall but we are there again this year and I will ask for one, cheers.

A few years ago we had a hire car in Tuscany and on a trip to Florence we were forced down a slip road on the inner ring road which took us into the inner town limit. We were only there for 2 minutes and about 100 mtrs as we turned around but too late. Our number plate had been caught on camera.

About 3 months later a fine came through the post, I think it was about 50 euros but I ignored it:shakeass2. Nothing for year and another one came through and it had doubled. Again I ignored it. They cant touch me:grin:

Then last July, probably another year later I get another from the Italian Police demanding 178 euros for non payment of fine:shocked: Now, we were going to Italy again in the 360 in September and the missus got paranoid that I was at risk of being arrested if we were stopped in Italy and demanded I paid the fine. So I grudgingly did so

That is actually my concern and despite me saying I won't pay I probably will, but they seriously need to stop with the siestas and actually do some fineing on time .

Hi Malc ..

This is flipping uncanny ,,, only yesterday i received a fine for a supposed non payment of a motorway toll from June 2015 .. I was definitely in Italy during that time driving a hire van for the Italian Marathon HERO rally .. I was on motorways on some stages , but i know that all the tolls were paid as i had to wait for the barriers to go up before driving through . I did however pay this supposed non payment as it was only 6.76 Euro !!! Didnt think it was worth the hassle and time for 6.76 Euro .... still amazed they took 2 years to chase 6.76 , it probably cost them more in paperwork and time ..

Hope to meet up on Epynt again one day !!!! :grin:

Spooky.

Italy is a bit of a mystery for me.

In Bologna I found the hotel and was directed down a side street for about 100 metres to their garage, No prohibition signs and this was obviously the hotel's usual instruction, About two months later I got a letter from Hertz, enclosing 3 police tickets, saying that they had deducted the sum demanded by the Police from my Amex card. The forms seemed to say that I had contravened a 'No Entry' on 3 separate occasions (ie each time I entered the garage).

A friend has just returned from the same region and, lo and behold, he get 3 charges. He could not identify his repeated error although he was quite familiar with the area.

I have to wonder whether this is an officially sanctioned scam. The sums were not great but given the general standard of city driving in Italy I was miffed to be charged for a trivial manoeuvre that inconvenieced no one. And, of course, the hire company pays up and makes a deduction, so an appeal is almost impossible. Do the locals pay in these circumstances or a hire cars s soft target?

I can't help thinking that the average British copper would have just 'had a word' but who knows with the universal installation of CCTV?

I don't think they're too clear and maybe in cahoots..

It may not be a scam but certainly seems a bit of a "rip-off":thumbsdow

Article 201 of the Italian Road Traffic Code ("Nuovo codice della strada", D. Lgs. 30 april 1992 n. 285 and subsequent amendments) states that: "For residents abroad, the fine must be notified within 360 days from the infraction".

The problem is that many city administration and local police bodies have outsourced the fine notification and collection service to private companies, who send the notifications regardless of the time of the offense in the hope that the receiving party will pay up anyway.

You could be magnanimous and pay the money to a country which is in deep financial distress:cry3:

I tend very much to agree.