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Chris Harris - I think Ferrari are going to be upset!
- Thread starter 328isport
- Start date
Hud
New member
I think the problem is it goes beyond "tweaking". If you're actually putting parts on the car that aren't available when you buy it new, or not even road legal, it's actually dishonest
Regarding what type of person he is: you mention that what he does for a living, which involves (or at least used to!) getting to drive a lot of shiny new Ferraris for free as soon as they come out and write about them for a living amongst other things, is a privilege. I think the fact that he's burned his bridges in public such that he'll prob never be able to do it again actually shows him in a very good light. He clearly does love Ferraris and driving them, but has basically given this up to spill the beans on what he thinks is unacceptable practice by the manufacturer. How many of us would be willing to give up such a privilege if we asked ourselves honestly? Not many I suspect....
If I had previously bought/ordered an Fcar new (or at least when it was still the best/fastest one available) I would be royally peed off about all of this. As it stands, I'm merely very disappointed as luckily I did not buy my 355 based on its claimed performance (aside from the fact that it's 15 years old so had probably lost a few ponies anyway). I could have spent my money and got something a hell of a lot faster and better handling if I really wanted. But, if you buy new, I'd imagine it's in a large part due to wanting to own the latest and greatest machine with all the claimed performance even if you're not going to use it. You've paid for it, so you should get it. If it's a fairy tale, you've effectively been stolen from
So, on the assumption that Mr Harris is not delusional and/or lying, if I'd recently bought a new Fcar, I'd be getting the sucker dyno-ed, persuading all my friends who had similar to do the same, and if the bhp figures didn't *average* the claimed figures, I'd be raising merry hell with Ferrari and anyone else who'd listen. And let's face it there seem to be quite a few people on here who buy pretty much one (or more) of every new Fcar that appears on the market and are Ferrari's core customers, so likely have quite a lot of influence and *would* be listened to.
Anyway, just my opinion
I dont believe there is a problem Mario. On the flip side of what Harris is trying to achieve i'm sure Ferrari could write more damning stories about dodgy 'journalist' practices if they wanted to do so.
isuk
Active member
You have to be kidding :grin: When I had an issue with my first Gallardo back in early '07 my dealer couldn't get an answer from the factory on how to resolve the issue because ALL of the key engineers were out in Los Angeles for the press launch of the then new Gallardo spyder. I doubt they were there without their lap tops and plenty of spare, sticky tyres :wink3:
For the first drives of the GT3 RS the journalists reported that the head of the GT development team accompanied the test cars and they were trailered to preagreed meeting places to be driven on approved routes chosen by Porsche.
Launching a new car for small companies like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche etc is a major event and the culmination of several years of large investment. The words of certain journalists carry huge weight in the minds of the public so bad reviews can be disastrous for sales. The internet forums have only multiplied this effect considerably so it's little wonder such extreme measures are taken to ensure tests are conducted with equipment that's as good as it possibly can be.
Hud
New member
British leyland never did this and look what happened to them .... but hey Harris would have been happy
Hud
New member
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
The bit about the scud tyres. He puts the word "standard" in inverted commas twice, the first in respect of the Corsas which dont get stuck to rollers.
The bit about the 360 modena also.
360trev
New member
I don't know why everyone gets so obsessed about performance figures in magazines, guess its the competative streak innate in all our genes. Lets face it so many factors will affect car performance not to mention the DRIVER and the bloody awful British weather that seems always to be raining! :laugh: Thats before we get onto the subject of the unnecessary array of heavy options people spec on their cars without thinking of the consequences.
Unfortunately the harsh reality is that world just isn't playing "fair". Both famous individuals and big companies abuse their power or monopoly position, politicians, even countries do it every day. They cheat, they lie and they abuse the weak or gullible. No amount of government legislation or rules will prevent this. F1 is a good example of the will and brain power of people to work around rules, as is the field of accountancy to help the rich to avoid paying tax.
I think what Chris Harris has pointed out is the 'extremis' that Ferrari have resorted to in recent launches. They have basically just overstepped the mark, become too 'blatent' and aggressive in recent years to the point that its become unpalettable and hard to accept, even for hardened journalists who are used to this sort of thing.
It will no doubt be a revalation for some people but lets face it its naive to believe everything you read in the media/magazines/tv. Make your own judgements.
Unfortunately the harsh reality is that world just isn't playing "fair". Both famous individuals and big companies abuse their power or monopoly position, politicians, even countries do it every day. They cheat, they lie and they abuse the weak or gullible. No amount of government legislation or rules will prevent this. F1 is a good example of the will and brain power of people to work around rules, as is the field of accountancy to help the rich to avoid paying tax.
I think what Chris Harris has pointed out is the 'extremis' that Ferrari have resorted to in recent launches. They have basically just overstepped the mark, become too 'blatent' and aggressive in recent years to the point that its become unpalettable and hard to accept, even for hardened journalists who are used to this sort of thing.
It will no doubt be a revalation for some people but lets face it its naive to believe everything you read in the media/magazines/tv. Make your own judgements.
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isuk
Active member
Hardly a shocker on the tyres then. Mclaren fitted Corsas to their track test cars as well. They have simply learned from the furore over previous rivals launches and quoted times for both tyres in their email launch blurb and give customers the option to specify them from new. The majority of 'Ring times are set on non standard rubber.
Look at the flak Porsche took when they launched the 997.1 GT3 on Corsas. Forum users heard they were not so clever in the wet and all of a sudden Porsche were being called out for selling cars on dangerous rubber :shocked: It's amazing how quickly silly stories like this become fact on the net.
With regard to the 360 he suggests it was "tuned" but doesn't say it had non standard parts fitted.
The other thing to bear in mind with the "controlled" nature of these tests is that a huge number of international journalists, all no doubt possessing a substantial difference in their personal driving capabilities, go on these launches and thrash the living daylights out of the test cars. More than a few end up being smashed so manufacturers rightly try to avoid such things happening but certain scribblers see that as a challenge to beat them. Some cars will need upgraded equipment to deal with this type of punishment as most owners would never dream of meating out the same treatment to their cars so standard production models don't require it.
Hes basically saying the scud didnt have the oem corsa tyres fitted.
The Mc just had its option tyres fitted.
isuk
Active member
..... or so we're told :wink3: :grin:
Surprised you haven't done a Doug and ordered one.
Montpellier
New member
isuk
Active member
It doesn't appeal to me Hari.
Brilliant, I must remember that as a response. :grin:
TopazDetailing
New member
I like Chris Harris, he is a great journalist and I believe he is someone who speaks his mind.
One of our German clients based in Frankfurt who is very well in tune with Ferrari, has been racing in the challenge series for a few years mentioned to my brother exactly the same thing about the press cars being unrepresentative of the production version!!
If this is true then it's a shame that Ferrari have to revert to these ways to get an edge over the competition... They are beautiful cars mechanically and to look at so they should be tested fairly against the competition and let the consumer decide which car to go for.
On a recent Evo or Autocar release I can't remember - i will dig up the issue, Steve Sutcliffe couldn't match the GT3RS's lap time so Ferrari changed the tires on the 458 that was being tested, leading to the car being fractions faster than the Porsche! Even Steve in his write up though that was a little weird.... As the tires felt completely different to the first set, which was nearly new! :huh:
Do you guys see Porsche going to a test with a truck and a crew of mechanics to "monitor" the car! :hmmm:
One of our German clients based in Frankfurt who is very well in tune with Ferrari, has been racing in the challenge series for a few years mentioned to my brother exactly the same thing about the press cars being unrepresentative of the production version!!
If this is true then it's a shame that Ferrari have to revert to these ways to get an edge over the competition... They are beautiful cars mechanically and to look at so they should be tested fairly against the competition and let the consumer decide which car to go for.
On a recent Evo or Autocar release I can't remember - i will dig up the issue, Steve Sutcliffe couldn't match the GT3RS's lap time so Ferrari changed the tires on the 458 that was being tested, leading to the car being fractions faster than the Porsche! Even Steve in his write up though that was a little weird.... As the tires felt completely different to the first set, which was nearly new! :huh:
Do you guys see Porsche going to a test with a truck and a crew of mechanics to "monitor" the car! :hmmm:
Jules
New member
does anyone really give a ****?
I could understand everyone's frustration if all owners were driving gods who were extremely upset that the car they were buying wasn't actually as quick as they could exploit/drive it.
It strikes me that the only reason owners may feel cheated is that they loose out on the 'mines faster than yours' bragging rights down the pub - and I actually think nobody gives a toss, possibly only the journos who get paid for it
I could understand everyone's frustration if all owners were driving gods who were extremely upset that the car they were buying wasn't actually as quick as they could exploit/drive it.
It strikes me that the only reason owners may feel cheated is that they loose out on the 'mines faster than yours' bragging rights down the pub - and I actually think nobody gives a toss, possibly only the journos who get paid for it
Hud
New member
Its a competitive world, dog eat dog - Ferrari are out to sell cars
By the same virtue are you saying that any pictures you have posted of cars that you have detailed never get tweaked then, they are exactly bog standard pictures giving a true representation of your work in order to give the public a true perspective of the results that detailing can achieve ....
^This^
Nice PR move by CH I think, maybe he'll get that presenting job on TV with his raised profile..
candellara
New member
This post from a guy on PH is interesting :shocked:
He is absolutely right. This has been happening for years. I remember having a look and being told in detail about the special 360CS they loaned to the press for tests against the GT3RS and that the journo's were driving around Fiorano. Remember that top gear test when they sent Luca Badoer (!) to drive the 360CS against Clarkson in the 996RS?
Anyway, I was secretly told, that 360CS had no cats (not road legal), Revised ECU (not found on later road car), modified induction (from 360 challenge car not found on later road car, radically different suspension geometry (not found on later road car) and loads of non-homologated 360 Challenge bits.
Want to feel ripped off? Test your Ferrari on the dyno. My experience, power quoted for CS 420bhp - dyno my mates and it's around 390bhp. Power quoted for 360M - 400bhp - dyno and it's 360bhp. Power quoted for 355 - 380bhp - dyno and it's 320bhp(!)). Power quoted for 430 - 480bhp - dyno mine and it's 450bhp. By comparison, power quoted for 996 GT3RS - 380hp - mine drove like the clappers - dyno and it's 408bhp.
Want to cry some more? Put the lightweight ones on the scales and weigh them...
I cannot stand their bullcrap either. Anyone remember that German customer who sued them because he said his car wouldnt reach their claimed speed? haha! I LOVE the way they've been found out with the 458 - the new Mclaren has just killed it in the performance stakes. I'm sure they'll learn.
Will it stop me buying their cars? Probably not. Just wish they'd stop being lying a55holes. We'd still buy the cars.
He is absolutely right. This has been happening for years. I remember having a look and being told in detail about the special 360CS they loaned to the press for tests against the GT3RS and that the journo's were driving around Fiorano. Remember that top gear test when they sent Luca Badoer (!) to drive the 360CS against Clarkson in the 996RS?
Anyway, I was secretly told, that 360CS had no cats (not road legal), Revised ECU (not found on later road car), modified induction (from 360 challenge car not found on later road car, radically different suspension geometry (not found on later road car) and loads of non-homologated 360 Challenge bits.
Want to feel ripped off? Test your Ferrari on the dyno. My experience, power quoted for CS 420bhp - dyno my mates and it's around 390bhp. Power quoted for 360M - 400bhp - dyno and it's 360bhp. Power quoted for 355 - 380bhp - dyno and it's 320bhp(!)). Power quoted for 430 - 480bhp - dyno mine and it's 450bhp. By comparison, power quoted for 996 GT3RS - 380hp - mine drove like the clappers - dyno and it's 408bhp.
Want to cry some more? Put the lightweight ones on the scales and weigh them...
I cannot stand their bullcrap either. Anyone remember that German customer who sued them because he said his car wouldnt reach their claimed speed? haha! I LOVE the way they've been found out with the 458 - the new Mclaren has just killed it in the performance stakes. I'm sure they'll learn.
Will it stop me buying their cars? Probably not. Just wish they'd stop being lying a55holes. We'd still buy the cars.