:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Maybe they’re selling the incredibly rare 348 GTC Challenge Michelotto Competizione LM. Not many of THOSE about I’m sure and bound to be worth a bob or two (just to stick with the core purpose of the thread........ :grin: )
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348 GTC - How many still around & value?
- Thread starter pdavison
- Start date
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Maybe they’re selling the incredibly rare 348 GTC Challenge Michelotto Competizione LM. Not many of THOSE about I’m sure and bound to be worth a bob or two (just to stick with the core purpose of the thread........ :grin: )
Dazza
Member
Vid for Dazza
In fact would quite like to read this article when it comes out.
:thumbsup:
Dazza
Member
https://drive-my.com/en/test-drive/...86Q5Hddi930NE35KUN3vxVegHrb6RWcZ61vVYN4e9__3U
Sent from my TA-1021 using Tapatalk
Sent from my TA-1021 using Tapatalk
chris_gilmartin
Member
Number 11 up for auction if anyone is keen!
https://silverstoneauctions.com/eve...ebruary-2020/1993-ferrari-348-gt-competizione
https://silverstoneauctions.com/eve...ebruary-2020/1993-ferrari-348-gt-competizione
Write up talks a lot about it being a homologation model, which it wasn’t. It also lists some changes from a standard 348 which weren’t changed. In fact very little was changed from a standard GTB and the car was a commemorative model. Great car and very rare but a fair amount of inaccuracy is thrown into adverts for them these days, mostly mixing them up with different variants of race prepped 348s.
Pangea
Active member
Ive read in more than one place that they were a homologation requirement for the GT series regs of the time.
What exactly would the GTC be commemorating ? Ive never seen that mentioned anywhere. Educate me..
Ive read in more than one place that they were a homologation requirement for the GT series regs of the time.
What exactly would the GTC be commemorating ? Ive never seen that mentioned anywhere. Educate me..
Ok
The cars had already raced for the year prior to the release of the road-going ‘GTC’ so it couldn’t have been for homologation. The ‘homologation’ for the track cars was simply the current road cars ie the TB/TS and GTB/GTS. The Road-going GTC was to commemorate how dominant the race prepped 348s were in the GT circuit - they dominated their class and often beat cars in the class above such as the F40s and Jag XJ220 etc. All the results can still be found online. One car in particular blew the competition away, it was driven by Oscar Larrauri. The road-going GTC was/is a commemorative GTB released in recognition of his dominance.
A letter sent out to all dealers back in 1993:
View attachment 155358
Kicking around somewhere I’ve got the updates that were made to a regular GTB to make the road-going GTC, most were cosmetic to make it look like a track 348 but it’s essentially a GTB under the skin. The doors are lightweight (think they had some kicking around) but other light-weight panels on a road-going GTC are simply the same light-weight panels as you see on the regular variants. When we got all the models together on the 25th anniversary we did a compare and contrast. I’d be very surprised if the weight saving is anything close to what is sometimes claimed and is probably closer to changing the seats and wheels and leaving my targa at home.
View attachment 155359
Don’t get me wrong, great cars (but then a ‘standard’ 348 isn’t bad
) and very rare, but they simply weren’t and aren’t what they are sometimes put up to be. They handle well because, as the 348s back in the day showed on the GT circuit, in the right hands a 348 was a very capable race car.Hope you feel educated, mate
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chris_gilmartin
Member
https://www.348gtc.com/ is a good place to start. I think the confusion stems from the fact that there were some parts that were homologated for the race cars e.g. roll cage etc.
chris_gilmartin
Member
Ok
:thumbsup: exactly! There's a lot of nonsense floating around on the internet about them though. I've spotted a few 'recreations' over the years as well.
Thought I had it somewhere. Bodywork, suspension, brakes etc is all standard. Some is lightweight like the bumpers......... but only because it’s lightweight on a standard car. It would be pointless to make the bumpers out of carbon kevlar as the standard bumpers are fibreglass and fibreglass is stronger for a given thickness. The doors have the metal parts in carbon kevlar rather than fibreglass on the race cars, not because using carbon kevlar over fibreglass saves weight but for safety reasons - fibreglass shatters into shards which would do serious damage to the occupant in a side impact. I believe the race going cars bumpers were paper thin, the road-going GTCs are the same thickness as a standard car and if you look behind appear to have the same weave.
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View attachment 155361
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I’m not sure if the Challenge cars covered that sort of thing off or not? Some were kits but some were factory prepared I believe.
Just makes me smile when articles talk about huge handling transformation the changes made for the road-going GTC made over a standard car when you look at what was actually changed. Snag is few of these articles have the journalist driving one back to back with a standard car, if they did they’d realise a standard car can handle well too. Any differences are probably more down to setup than anything else.
irarref
Active member
If you go on the parts catalogue you can see some of the unique parts for the challenge cars:
https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/diagram/ferrari/348-challenge-95
(the GTC is listed separately but it's all mixed up with the spider etc)
And if you go on the eurospares version it has a few good photos too.
https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/348-challenge-1995/
Just on a slightly off topic subject I recently bought 2 of the eurospares replica front wheels (so I can have a full size spare) when they worked out postage they commented on the weights:
"The original front wheel weighs 22lbs and the Eurospares Copy weighs 31.7lbs"
so it does look like Magnesium wheels are approx 2/3 the weight of ordinary alloys.
The original front wheel weighs 22lbs and the Eurospares Copy weighs 31.7lbs
https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/diagram/ferrari/348-challenge-95
(the GTC is listed separately but it's all mixed up with the spider etc)
And if you go on the eurospares version it has a few good photos too.
https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/348-challenge-1995/
Just on a slightly off topic subject I recently bought 2 of the eurospares replica front wheels (so I can have a full size spare) when they worked out postage they commented on the weights:
"The original front wheel weighs 22lbs and the Eurospares Copy weighs 31.7lbs"
so it does look like Magnesium wheels are approx 2/3 the weight of ordinary alloys.
The original front wheel weighs 22lbs and the Eurospares Copy weighs 31.7lbs
Yep, thing is the 'track focused' mods you see on the 348 Challenge were never on the road-going GTC - it was never designed specifically for the track, as I say it was a commemoration model as the letter sent out to all dealers says. When people write about the road-going 348 GTC it's often a mish-mash of bits of the Challenge cars, parts from the Michelotto Competizione (I think officially designated the 348 GT-SAI or SIA, forget which) and the 348 Michelotto GT-LM. The last two of those are entirely different beasts and were far lighter weight and higher performance (parts of the engine were taken from the F40 for the LM, not sure with the SAI/SIA) than a standard road going 348 which is essentially what the road-going 348 GTC was.
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chris_gilmartin
Member
Exactly, I totally agree. I do think that there was some weight saving, because it says so in the owners manual and Ferrari would not tell fibs, right? :grin: It specifically says the doors and front & rear bumpers are 'in Kevlar and carbon to achieve a remarkable weight reduction'. Of course that could be a remarkably small weight deduction. Plus if the bumpers have ever been replaced who's to know really? My doors sound pleasingly lightweight. I expect the seats are probably a fair bit lighter...but never taken them out to weigh them. I've been wondering whether it's worth putting mine in for the Classiche programme at some point, if I did then presumably they would give me chapter & verse. No idea what it costs or entails though - has anyone done this for a 348?
I haven't for a 'bog standard' TS but would consider it for a GTC due to the rarity. Just another tick in the box if you were ever going to sell her.
Doors were certainly lightweight, the standard ones are part metal, part fibreglass so replacing the metal with carbon Kevlar makes perfect sense - not only does it save some weight but like you say, it gives more of an impression of a lightweight car when you use them. It could be that the bumpers were also originally carbon Kevlar but given the originals are pretty light already that's not going to save much. You can check though, I'll see if I can show how in a bit. They probably saved more taking out the lump which was the original 348 exhaust and cats (weighs a ton) and replacing with a much lighter sports exhaust. This will also have improved the handling a fair bit, I know it did when I changed mine.
Chris, if you go under the engine cover and look inside the rear bumper on the left where there's room and take a pic you'll be able to tell straight away. If the bumper is carbon Kevlar it'll be a uniform cross pattern weave as you see on the F40, in fact you'd expect to see an uneven surface from the outside although it could have been filled (although that would slightly negate the point as it would add weight):
View attachment 155362
Inside you'd see something like this:
View attachment 155363
If it's fibreglass it'll be more random strands in all directions - closeup of the inside of my standard bumper:
View attachment 155364
Either way it'll be pretty clear to see if it's F40esque Kevlar composite or a more standard lightweight fibreglass panel
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