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Golf improvement thread

Nosevi

Nosevi

Administrator
Staff member
When I said I was seeing how good a complete duffer could get at golf given a bit of time, effort and pretty close to all the advantages the pros have, a couple of people said to keep them informed with how things are going. Having taken some (possibly well deserved) flak for posting about golf in the café, and endured several discussions about golf not being a sport by people who probably think they could play the game to a high standard having scored a hole in one on a course where at least one hole features a windmill, I thought I'd better move over to a different section of the forum to post how things are going.

The idea of this thread is both to share things I've found that may help other players (there's one hell of a lot of dross out there about golf on the likes of Youtube and even from some instructors I've chatted to) as well as allow any other golfers out there to post bits and bobs that may help others, me included, I'll take all the help I can get.

This is a little background to where I am now and why I am where I am - feel free to skip it though.

I took up golf about 5 years ago and had an inkling that I would like to see if I could get good at it - loved it right off. Then in an unrelated accident about 8 months later totally severed the patella tendon in my right knee (bit that connects the knee cap to the shin and so has all the strength going through it, basically I totally shagged my knee). It wasn't a clean break and the tendon itself was knackered so having had my knee wired back together I was in a cast then leg brace for about 6 months after which I could only bend my knee about 15-20 degrees. Took about a year of physio 3 times a week as well as exercises every day to get most of the movement back in the joint but it'll never bee quite what it was.

After that I couldn't play rugby any more so decided to totally focus on golf, as it was my right knee that is now numb and a bit of a different shape to the left, I can play round it. Ticked over slowly improving for a bit, but not taking it too seriously, until about 2 years ago the RAF informed me that, as I couldn't deploy on operations they would no longer be requiring my services. After a little chat in court about the fact that the leg injury was in fact their fault (they had a scan showing the tendon was in bits but 'lost it' or ignored it and put me on intensive, high impact physio until the tendon snapped - not bitter mind), the nice judge told them they should really consider making it up to me financially. This gave me the opportunity to give the golf thing a real go and see how good I could get, basically practicing full time, using kit like a top launch monitor (http://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?49061-GC2-Golf-Launch-Monitor), being coached by the head pro at the English Golf Union Academy who found the idea interesting, using their practice facilities, that sort of thing.

So that's me. I started taking the game a bit seriously when I left the RAF a little over a year ago and got my initial handicap about 6 months ago I think at 5.5 . Although it would have been a little lower going by the rounds I submitted, the EGU won't give out a cat 1 handicap (less than 5.5) straight off so that's my starting point. Right now I'm concentrating more on getting my swing where I want it to be and getting some sort of short game in place rather than lowering my handicap, that'll be next year's goal - hopefully by then I'll be playing well below it.
 
Just as a starter I was looking through some old vids of my swing and was shocked at how much it has changed - got a very good coach mind. I video my swing from time to time so I can equate the numbers I'm seeing on my launch monitor to what I am actually doing. Anyway, this side by side comparison of 'impact' gives an idea of how things have changed. I promise the earlier picture is of the same point in the swing, you can just see the ball taking off. The red line is for reference, it's above the ball. The second vid is hitting a foam ball into a blanket but it shows how things are different now. (yes, my mrs does know I sometimes practice in the lounge if it's tipping it down - roll on new garage!)

sIMG_2907.jpg

To give it some perspective here's a side by side next to Aaron Baddley, a tour pro with a pretty decent swing, obviously he's hitting a wood, I'm hitting an iron so the ball is a bit further back but it gives an idea. I'm in a far better position now with pretty much everything more or less where I want it.

sIMG_2909.jpg

The top tip here is consider videoing your swing. This is just done on my iphone using the V1 app so I can frame by frame it and slow it down, but what you are doing and what you think you're doing is often light years apart. I was getting a very weak high ball flight before compared to now, looking at the vid you can probably see why. The more recent shot is inside so you'd expect a little more blur but my swing speed is way higher now and much more of a drive through the ball - I think that probably comes across even though these are still frames.
 
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Thanks. You're about spot on, drives are about 50 yards further for a normal drive, I can crank it up a bit now but it's generally not worth it - loose too much accuracy. The club head speed is up quite a bit, but so is the smash factor (ratio of ball speed to club head speed). This means that not only am I hitting it with considerably more force, it's also much more efficient so more of the energy in the club is transferred into the ball.

These 2 shots of the same swings tell a story as well. Big, big difference.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1375185915.259658.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1375185930.683838.jpg

It's a miracle I could get round the course before!
 
Yes, you can see that you're really driving through the ball now for a much more penatrating ball flight, as opposed to kind of scooping it up and not relying on the loft if the club doing its work. :thumbsup:
 
JoyZipper said:
Yes, you can see that you're really driving through the ball now for a much more penatrating ball flight, as opposed to kind of scooping it up and not relying on the loft if the club doing its work. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Yep, you're right, makes a totally different sound too. Although my body gets into totally different (and better) positions, part of that is the effect not the cause of how I'm coming into impact. I'll see if I can describe the biggest difference. Might take some pics but I'll see if I can describe it.

Assume you've taken your backswing then on the downswing you've come down to half way down so the club is parallel to the ground. My club is a little 'shut' now but for argument sake assume the toe is pointing straight up. There are basically 2 ways to get that club square on the ball. Most amateurs do it one way, all pros do it the other, thants why regardless of their swing, impact looks more or less the same.

With the 'amateur' swing the heel continues to pull down with the toe of the club trailing behind. As you come into the ball with the toe still trailing the hands square the club by essentially cutting under the ball and invariably the left wrists breaks down. Teaching pros constantly say about keeping a flat left wrist, what most don't seem to grasp is that the left wrist breaking down is often a symptom not a cause.

Look at a pro swinging in super slow mo and this part of the swing is entirely different. For argument sake we're at half way down with the toe pointing up. Instead of the toe dragging behind on this swing the toe rotates over the top of the shaft in the fist half of the way down. As you come into impact, rather than the hands feeling the need to close the face, your propreaception (sp?) tells you that you don't need to and you just drive through the ball. The club shaft leans forward naturally, your hips fire open naturally, your head stays more back naturally as you're 'pushing forward' into the ball rather than 'pulling' through the ball.

90% of the difference between the first swing and the second was when I changed how I was coming into impact from half way down to the ball.
 
p.s. When I say 'Amateurs' I'm talking higher handicap amateurs. Some Amateurs are quite good. In fact I regularly practice next to or near the England team, some of who play off +6! They strike it quite well.
 
Nosevi said:
p.s. When I say 'Amateurs' I'm talking higher handicap amateurs. Some Amateurs are quite good. In fact I regularly practice next to or near the England team, some of who play off +6! They strike it quite well.
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+6 is reasonable I suppose. :shocked: I can't even imagine giving away 4-8 shots (depending on the standard scratch) before I even peg it up on the first tee!
 
Just been through this year's team, was a chap last year playing off that (plus 5.7 I thought) but he seems to have moved on. Actually they're pretty rubbish this year a couple pushing down towards plus 5 but mostly in the plus 4 and plus 3 range. It's the young lads that always amaze me though, I see them more often as well. There's a couple of 17 year olds off plus 3 and a 15 year old kid off plus 2. World at their feet.
 
Fraccie said:
Why is this in the sport section, golf is not a sport, it is ......zzzzzzzzzzzzz...................thud!
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It's in the sport section because AJ didn't want it in the holiday ..... I mean cafe section. Is it a sport or not? Not sure really. I know I get upwards of 120mph club head speed (tracked on radar) now due to weights, core stability work etc. When I hit a big drive I'm using a pretty similar technique and force to when I used to compete at discus in my youth. Can't really see the difference.

Regarding it being dull to you, maybe. Pretty new to it myself, used to be a keen rugby player (but also played cricket, hockey, squash and rowed for my college). I thought it would probably be a tad dull till I got into it. There is one interesting stat I have come across though. I've not met one person who has the talent to play the game well who finds it dull, it's generally people who are bloody hopless who make a fuss about it being boring coz frankly it is if you're useless. There's a Championship course near me that I sometimes go to, Fraccie - the Hotchkin now ranked the 4th best course in England, only a tad over 7000 yards long, steps down into some of the bunkers, that sort of thing. Going to stick my neck out but feel free to come for a game and prove that stat wrong :)
 
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Fraccie said:
Why is this in the sport section, golf is not a sport, it is ......zzzzzzzzzzzzz...................thud!
Click to expand...

For what it's worth I also thought golf was as boring as it could get. I had even tried it down the range and on a proper course a few times, without much success, and and still thought it sucked.

Then one day a serious golfer friend coaxed me out on the course and just gave me a couple of pointers. Started hitting a few straight shots and I was hooked.

5 years down the line I'm still keen as anything, play twice a week and am down to 6.
 
This game/sport can be seriously trying at times, but it can make it all the more addictive. Having got to a certain level my coach has decided that I need to change the way I play the game if I want to progress. I can move the ball either way if I need to, the degree of accuracy is debatable mind you but I can do it. My stock shot is a draw and a fairly pronounced one at that - on a mid iron I probably move the ball 10-15 yards from right to left during a flight, sometimes more, a driver is more than that, it's a real arc. He's now decided, after almost a year, that I really should be hitting a fade. It's all to do with how I come into the ball and taking my hands out of the shot but essentially it'll give me more control (apparently). Got to say, most of the England guys now play a fade for this reason.

Anyway, been working pretty hard on it and it's just starting to come together. This afternoon went out and shot 3 over par (not a great score on the little course I normally practice on - 3 shots between Par and SSS) but my ball striking was probably the best I've had. Missed one fairway and more importantly only 2 greens in regulation all round, the third dropped shot was a three putt from the far end of the green - annoying.

The thing was in the 16 greens I hit, 12 were real birdie chances, talking 12 feet and less............ and missed every sodding one of them, even a couple of 4 footers! Just nothing dropped. I lipped out 7 times I think. It feels like progress but is more or less on my handicap. I was actually playing with an old chap who happened to be standing on the 1st as I walked up and asked me to play with him. Unfortunately he was having a nightmare and me hitting it well didn't particularly help.

The one big difference I did find from my normal ball flight is the amount of control you can get with a fade over a draw. Many of the top pros are switching (Tiger, Sergio and several others) and I can kind of see why. With a draw when it goes wrong, it goes wrong in a big way. With a fade a bad shot is far less destructive.

Got to say when I say fade I am talking what some would call a 'baby' fade. My ball flight probably only moves a yard in the air left to right. In fact the old boy I was playing with and was talking to about swing changes (his excuse for the day as well as mine) said to shut up about fading, I was hitting it dead straight. He faded it. I had to get him to stand right behind me to see there was a little movement as the ball fell. I told him there was just a very subtle difference to what I was doing and what he was doing: I was fading it, he was slicing it. He's a regular and I know him, there was a fair amount of banter going on.

Anyway, That's my top tip. Most high handicapers try to hit a draw because they're trying not to slice it. Once you get past that, see if you can go back to a left to right ball flight. The control you can get over a ball flight that is only a yard or so left to right is far more than the control you generally get (not always but generally) over a ball flight that varies from a couple of yards right to left to a snap hook when your timing deserts you.
 
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Well I'm enjoying your posts even if Fraccie isn't :)


..."You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen." - Lee Trevino
 
darrens said:
:)

This thread triggered me to read this piece.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204482304574220271513874890.html

Not that I think anyone would recommend copying Trevino's method of varied ball striking. One of my favourite players though.
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Great read, Darren. I've watched several Trevino vids, he certainly is a character. Thing is he was actually right - Tiger does now play a fade and for the reasons Trevino gave. Hank Haney helped Tiger change his swing to a stock fade.

I'm a little less radical than Trevino in that I'm trying to go from a draw rather than a hook. Where Trevino used to set up with an open stance, I just do a few practice swings that exagerate a cut across the front of my body - Jimenez does the same as do several others. The idea of this is to stop you getting 'trapped' behind ie the club stuck behind you so you have to flip your hands to try to set the ball off towards the target. Other than that it's pretty similar - more of a push through the ball with the club face fairly neutral, very little hands in the shot.

I was actually talking to the old pro at my golf club prior to changing from a stock draw to a fade. I went into great detail about the pros and cons of each and how I saw it, I wanted his opinion, he's pretty old fashioned but has coached several tour pros and knows his stuff. I asked him which I should go for - draw or fade?

He listened to all my arguments, then looked at me with a dead straight face and said "Pete, if I were you I'd hit it with just a tiny bit of straight."
 
Lol. I like it!
Ps
If you get the chance to play France, Champ de Battile in Normandy, 60 mins from Le Havre is stunning
 
Had an interesting little round yesterday. Don't generally play with my Father and haven't played with him for over a year, since then my game has come on a tad. Like most people's parents I guess he knows best and regularly tells me that I'm going about my project wrong. I'm told I am spending far too much time on the practice ground etc and should just be on the course far more - I guess that's how all the seniors at his club do it. Any bad shot in those earlier days of my 'project' (and there were a lot) were met with reminders of this fact. It didn't help that I used to let who I was playing with effect my game but since then I've made a point of often going out on the course with complete strangers when they ask me to join them (mine's a friendly club and people often do) and it no longer makes a difference. It was well meaning but perhaps not what I needed to hear. Hence I went my own way and did my own thing. Yesterday was the first time in a while I had said ok, I'd play with him.

He insisted it was on his course, it was match play (he can be a tad erratic with the driver), and that we play off full handicaps giving him 10 shots over the 18 or more worryingly a shot on 10 holes as we were playing match play. His track is described as an inland links and the wind really does whistle through there a lot. The courses I practice on are nice tame park-land courses and off-setting by 3 and 4 clubs for the wind is not what I'm used to. The wind was up so this was going to be interesting. Due to a lack of time we only played the front 9.

My lack of practice in the wind showed up on the first when I miss-judged my approach shot and, with the wind behind went over the back of the green. In my defence I was 160 out from the middle and used a pitching wedge - this kind of variation was not quite what I was used to! Many of the greens are raised and shaved, again not what I'm used to, and the ball rolled off the back, down the hill and into the rough. Anyway, long story short, he won the first and I could almost hear all the 'advice' about to start.

I filed that away under "offset a hell of a lot more for the wind!" and moved on.

That was the last hole he won, he drew on one other but I beat him on the other 7. His handicap kept him in the game a little but I won 3 and 2. It really should not have been as satisfying as it was. For the first time I didn't get advice as we walked off, in fact he wanted a chipping lesson. With the wind up and really dried out greens some balls just trundled across them but I got up and down for par 4 times with gimmee less than a foot or so putts left after a chip. My mum who was with us wants a bunker lesson.

Like I said, should not have been nearly as satisfying as it was but it was nice for the approach I'm taking to be somewhat vindicated.
 
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